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  TOV News > American Honda reports January 2017 Sales > > Re: Acura

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99SI
Profile for 99SI
Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2017 13:16
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Acura is just dead in the water...
Great_Tubimi
Profile for Great_Tubimi
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2017 16:13
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99SI wrote:
Acura is just dead in the water...



The MDX, RDX, and NSX should be in Honda showrooms.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2017 19:16
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
99SI wrote:
Acura is just dead in the water...



The MDX, RDX, and NSX should be in Honda showrooms.



No they shouldn't.

Ganplosive
Profile for Ganplosive
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2017 20:56
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3570 car sales.

I think the Lexus IS model alone probably outsold this amount...

TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2017 21:32
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Ganplosive wrote:
3570 car sales.

I think the Lexus IS model alone probably outsold this amount...


Sadly, not even close. It is like Trump already imposed his tax on the imported vehicles. I had a crazy busy day so have only compared Honda Toyota but these #s are sad:

ILX 693 -43.8%
CT 393 -36.8%

ES 2,171 -36.1%
TLX 1,903 -15%
IS 1,423 -34.7%


GS 422 -67.5%
RLX 80 -18.4%; hybrid 11 -38.9%


LS 280 -29.5%


RC 447 -40.8%

NSX 50


NX 2,964 -5.4%

RX 5,520 -20.6%
RDX 3,202 +3.2%

MDX 3,274 -8.4%
GX 1,418 -11.8%


LX 534 -8.7%






Yaris 3,281 +37.4%
Fit 3,078 -.5%

Civic 23,095 -13.6%
Corolla 21,567 -8.7%

Camry 20,313 -24.3%
Accord 19,536 -5.9%; hybrid 1,711 +2,309.9%


Avalon 2,503 -30.4%


86 474 -6.5%

Prius 7,829 -15.9%

HR-V 5,689 +36.2%

CR-V 29,287 +52.5%
Rav4 22,155 +2.8%

HighLander 12,656 +12.4%
Pilot 7,180 -16.1%

Tacoma 12,509 -1.6%
RidgeLine 2,781 +133,950%

Sienna 7,285 -33.7%
Odyssey 6,500 -10%





99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2017 22:05
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TSX69 wrote:
Ganplosive wrote:
3570 car sales.

I think the Lexus IS model alone probably outsold this amount...


Sadly, not even close. It is like Trump already imposed his tax on the imported vehicles. I had a crazy busy day so have only compared Honda Toyota but these #s are sad:

ILX 693 -43.8%
CT 393 -36.8%

ES 2,171 -36.1%
TLX 1,903 -15%
IS 1,423 -34.7%


GS 422 -67.5%
RLX 80 -18.4%; hybrid 11 -38.9%


LS 280 -29.5%


RC 447 -40.8%

NSX 50


NX 2,964 -5.4%

RX 5,520 -20.6%
RDX 3,202 +3.2%

MDX 3,274 -8.4%
GX 1,418 -11.8%


LX 534 -8.7%






Yaris 3,281 +37.4%
Fit 3,078 -.5%

Civic 23,095 -13.6%
Corolla 21,567 -8.7%

Camry 20,313 -24.3%
Accord 19,536 -5.9%; hybrid 1,711 +2,309.9%


Avalon 2,503 -30.4%


86 474 -6.5%

Prius 7,829 -15.9%

HR-V 5,689 +36.2%

CR-V 29,287 +52.5%
Rav4 22,155 +2.8%

HighLander 12,656 +12.4%
Pilot 7,180 -16.1%

Tacoma 12,509 -1.6%
RidgeLine 2,781 +133,950%

Sienna 7,285 -33.7%
Odyssey 6,500 -10%






Do we have to bring politics into everything?

RKG
Profile for RKG
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2017 22:20
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99SI wrote:

Do we have to bring politics into everything?



I have never seen TSX69 make political statements. it's just a passing reference. Take it easy :).

leehom
Profile for leehom
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2017 01:14
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TSX69 wrote:I had a crazy busy day so have only compared Honda Toyota but these #s are sad:

Why are the numbers sad? Seems typical for sales to go down after the holidays to me?

Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2017 01:48
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TSX69 wrote:
Ganplosive wrote:
3570 car sales.

I think the Lexus IS model alone probably outsold this amount...


not even close.

ES 2,171 -36.1%
TLX 1,903 -15%
IS 1,423 -34.7%

Sure is easier to just guess the facts!

Looks like the two models sold in almost identical numbers the past two years.

2016

IS 37,289
TLX 37,156

2015

IS 46,430
TLX 47,080

Not bad considering the IS is on an FR chassis, available in RWD and AWD, turbo-4 and two V6 trims, and F-Sport versions of all 3 trims. And of course the TLX is just a bland, beaked Accord.

Great_Tubimi
Profile for Great_Tubimi
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2017 04:55
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lexusgs wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
99SI wrote:
Acura is just dead in the water...



The MDX, RDX, and NSX should be in Honda showrooms.



No they shouldn't.



The NSX is already a Honda everywhere else in the world. Why wouldn't it make sense to have the MDX and RDX in the fold and end the farce that is Acura?

That's not a rhetorical question.

TheDiscriminator
Profile for TheDiscriminator
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2017 11:32
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Ganplosive wrote:
3570 car sales.

I think the Lexus IS model alone probably outsold this amount...



Try thinking again...

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2017 11:52
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leehom wrote:
TSX69 wrote:I had a crazy busy day so have only compared Honda Toyota but these #s are sad:

Why are the numbers sad? Seems typical for sales to go down after the holidays to me?



Yup, it's typical for sales to go down after the holidays, hence January sales usually not so good.

But, we are comparing January 2016 against January 2017. Both months were after holidays.

The question here is, why was Jan 2017 so much worse than Jan 2016 for Lexus sedans? Sedans in general went down for everyone, but Lexus seems to have the biggest decline.

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2017 11:59
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
99SI wrote:
Acura is just dead in the water...



The MDX, RDX, and NSX should be in Honda showrooms.



No they shouldn't.



The NSX is already a Honda everywhere else in the world. Why wouldn't it make sense to have the MDX and RDX in the fold and end the farce that is Acura?

That's not a rhetorical question.



The question becomes, will Honda be able to sell a Honda MDX at close to $60k, or a Honda RDX at $45k.

If it's called a Honda RDX, people will probably see it as a premium CR-V with more power. For comparison, a Ford Escape Titanium starts at $29k and goes all the way to $36k for a fully loaded one.





Great_Tubimi
Profile for Great_Tubimi
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2017 12:44
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Hondarulez wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
99SI wrote:
Acura is just dead in the water...



The MDX, RDX, and NSX should be in Honda showrooms.



No they shouldn't.



The NSX is already a Honda everywhere else in the world. Why wouldn't it make sense to have the MDX and RDX in the fold and end the farce that is Acura?

That's not a rhetorical question.



The question becomes, will Honda be able to sell a Honda MDX at close to $60k, or a Honda RDX at $45k.

If it's called a Honda RDX, people will probably see it as a premium CR-V with more power. For comparison, a Ford Escape Titanium starts at $29k and goes all the way to $36k for a fully loaded one.







Once the HONDA NSX is in showrooms, your point will be moot.

Acura has no cache, but Honda does. This move would bump Honda closer to Audi, if anything.

If Honda would add a follow-up to the S2000, they'd pretty much have everything covered. Keeping up the Acura facade had to be more costly than it's worth.



lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2017 12:53
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
99SI wrote:
Acura is just dead in the water...



The MDX, RDX, and NSX should be in Honda showrooms.



No they shouldn't.



The NSX is already a Honda everywhere else in the world. Why wouldn't it make sense to have the MDX and RDX in the fold and end the farce that is Acura?

That's not a rhetorical question.



It should be a rhetorical question.

Do you have any idea how embarrassing and damaging it would be for Honda and its image if they just gave up and threw in the towel with the first Japanese luxury brand? It would only be seen negatively and would be a huge blemish on the brand and its legacy.

Failure is never a good thing and is hard to recover from especially in the automobile/luxury market. People would be laughing at Honda that they could not get it together to make Acura successful and competitive and give them the products they need to succeed and compete. They would see the company as flawed and in disarray and may even question if Honda just gave up on Acura maybe they are not that special anymore and maybe Honda's are not as special anymore. It likely would effect Honda sales negatively.

US buyers still buy and spend more money on Acura's because it is a upscale brand separate from a common Honda/Honda dealership and they want to be associated with a upscale brand more when they spend over 35 or 40 thousand for a SUV. It is not a given that the MDX or RDX would sell so well if Acura failed and they were now Honda's, they may be seen as somewhat tarnished vehicles form a failed brand and buyers may not want to spend much for them anymore and will just settle for Pilots or CRV's or go to Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, if they want something nicer.

It is hard to find a bad review of the pricey sporty Mazda CX3, CX5 and CX9, they usually take first place in tests and reviews yet they have consistent low to very low sales. If they, along with a version of the Mazda 6 were sold under the upscale brand Amati they likely would be selling 4 or 5 times better then what they are because they are too pricey for a mainstream brand and the sporty character just does not fit in so well or means too much with the mainstream buyer. The CX9 and 6 are missing a needed 6 cyl engine too as that is one of their biggest criticisms is the under achieving 4 cylinders.

Good luck selling a $155-200K Honda exotic in the US, the GTR struggled once its price went up and hit the 100K mark. The NSX is rare in Europe and Japan, even the previous one, most Acura models

Killing Acura just because certain figures in Honda are so stubborn and so clueless that they won't give the company a competitive RWD platform, fully competitive sedans and coupes, a full flagship sedan, Tier 1 DOHC 6 or 8 cylinder engines, and demand way too much cost cutting especially with interiors would be a disaster for Honda and its legacy.

Give Acura fully competitive no excuses products and go full in, stop half assing it and holding back and making that the mission for Acura to just be a marketing exercise to sell slightly different more expensive Honda's and always be steps down over Tier 1 competitors. That is how you address an issue, you fix it, you don't just give up and throw in the towel, they have invested billions in Acura and it has elevated the image of Honda, it will hurt the image of Honda if they just give up on Acura.

Smart Luxury has been a epic failure, hopefully they learned you can't cuts costs and make your vehicles even closer to Honda's when you really needed to separate your lineup more from Honda. A really cool expensive exotic is not going to help you sell anymore cost cut cars either.

While all car sales were down and that is to be expected after Christmas the RLX was again dead last place with just 80 sold, only 11 hybrids sold which is just embarrassing. The RWD 6 or 8 cyl Genesis G80 in comparison sold 1350 and was the 2nd or 3rd best seller in class depending on whether you think the Caddy XTS is a mid level lux car or not. The flagship Genesis G90 which is another RWD 6 or 8 cylinder sold 468 beating the LS and A8 and not too far off the 7 series. The fact that a new production/dealership limited upscale brand tied to Hyundai from Korea is creaming competitive Acura's in sales and offers a more upscale sedan that beats Acura's mid level sedan is just embarrassing and neither Genesis car is pushing the envelope when it comes to technology, ingenuity, or performance, it simply offers what the market wants at a attractive price, not that hard.

Honda should pay more attention to this site and other Honda sites because some here and there have predicted exactly what was going to happen and what is not going to work especially when it came to smart luxury, ILX, RLX, TLX, cost cut interiors, 2 screen touch, sticking with FWD/Accord/civic based platforms with everything, J series being top engine.

BallerMDX
Profile for BallerMDX
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2017 18:04
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Hondarulez wrote:
leehom wrote:
TSX69 wrote:I had a crazy busy day so have only compared Honda Toyota but these #s are sad:

Why are the numbers sad? Seems typical for sales to go down after the holidays to me?



Yup, it's typical for sales to go down after the holidays, hence January sales usually not so good.

But, we are comparing January 2016 against January 2017. Both months were after holidays.

The question here is, why was Jan 2017 so much worse than Jan 2016 for Lexus sedans? Sedans in general went down for everyone, but Lexus seems to have the biggest decline.



I think Lexus abandoned its core consumer base with the radical front ends and messy interior designs.

The new LS wears the predator grill much better and Lexus has done an outstanding job on the interior of the new LS and LC as well. But is it enough for their customers to return?

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2017 18:54
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Great_Tubimi wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
99SI wrote:
Acura is just dead in the water...



The MDX, RDX, and NSX should be in Honda showrooms.



No they shouldn't.



The NSX is already a Honda everywhere else in the world. Why wouldn't it make sense to have the MDX and RDX in the fold and end the farce that is Acura?

That's not a rhetorical question.



The question becomes, will Honda be able to sell a Honda MDX at close to $60k, or a Honda RDX at $45k.

If it's called a Honda RDX, people will probably see it as a premium CR-V with more power. For comparison, a Ford Escape Titanium starts at $29k and goes all the way to $36k for a fully loaded one.







Once the HONDA NSX is in showrooms, your point will be moot.

Acura has no cache, but Honda does. This move would bump Honda closer to Audi, if anything.

If Honda would add a follow-up to the S2000, they'd pretty much have everything covered. Keeping up the Acura facade had to be more costly than it's worth.





See lexusgs' post. He summed it up well.


longhorn
Profile for longhorn
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2017 20:37
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lexusgs wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
99SI wrote:
Acura is just dead in the water...



The MDX, RDX, and NSX should be in Honda showrooms.



No they shouldn't.



The NSX is already a Honda everywhere else in the world. Why wouldn't it make sense to have the MDX and RDX in the fold and end the farce that is Acura?

That's not a rhetorical question.



It should be a rhetorical question.

Do you have any idea how embarrassing and damaging it would be for Honda and its image if they just gave up and threw in the towel with the first Japanese luxury brand? It would only be seen negatively and would be a huge blemish on the brand and its legacy.

Failure is never a good thing and is hard to recover from especially in the automobile/luxury market. People would be laughing at Honda that they could not get it together to make Acura successful and competitive and give them the products they need to succeed and compete. They would see the company as flawed and in disarray and may even question if Honda just gave up on Acura maybe they are not that special anymore and maybe Honda's are not as special anymore. It likely would effect Honda sales negatively.

US buyers still buy and spend more money on Acura's because it is a upscale brand separate from a common Honda/Honda dealership and they want to be associated with a upscale brand more when they spend over 35 or 40 thousand for a SUV. It is not a given that the MDX or RDX would sell so well if Acura failed and they were now Honda's, they may be seen as somewhat tarnished vehicles form a failed brand and buyers may not want to spend much for them anymore and will just settle for Pilots or CRV's or go to Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, if they want something nicer.

It is hard to find a bad review of the pricey sporty Mazda CX3, CX5 and CX9, they usually take first place in tests and reviews yet they have consistent low to very low sales. If they, along with a version of the Mazda 6 were sold under the upscale brand Amati they likely would be selling 4 or 5 times better then what they are because they are too pricey for a mainstream brand and the sporty character just does not fit in so well or means too much with the mainstream buyer. The CX9 and 6 are missing a needed 6 cyl engine too as that is one of their biggest criticisms is the under achieving 4 cylinders.

Good luck selling a $155-200K Honda exotic in the US, the GTR struggled once its price went up and hit the 100K mark. The NSX is rare in Europe and Japan, even the previous one, most Acura models

Killing Acura just because certain figures in Honda are so stubborn and so clueless that they won't give the company a competitive RWD platform, fully competitive sedans and coupes, a full flagship sedan, Tier 1 DOHC 6 or 8 cylinder engines, and demand way too much cost cutting especially with interiors would be a disaster for Honda and its legacy.

Give Acura fully competitive no excuses products and go full in, stop half assing it and holding back and making that the mission for Acura to just be a marketing exercise to sell slightly different more expensive Honda's and always be steps down over Tier 1 competitors. That is how you address an issue, you fix it, you don't just give up and throw in the towel, they have invested billions in Acura and it has elevated the image of Honda, it will hurt the image of Honda if they just give up on Acura.

Smart Luxury has been a epic failure, hopefully they learned you can't cuts costs and make your vehicles even closer to Honda's when you really needed to separate your lineup more from Honda. A really cool expensive exotic is not going to help you sell anymore cost cut cars either.

While all car sales were down and that is to be expected after Christmas the RLX was again dead last place with just 80 sold, only 11 hybrids sold which is just embarrassing. The RWD 6 or 8 cyl Genesis G80 in comparison sold 1350 and was the 2nd or 3rd best seller in class depending on whether you think the Caddy XTS is a mid level lux car or not. The flagship Genesis G90 which is another RWD 6 or 8 cylinder sold 468 beating the LS and A8 and not too far off the 7 series. The fact that a new production/dealership limited upscale brand tied to Hyundai from Korea is creaming competitive Acura's in sales and offers a more upscale sedan that beats Acura's mid level sedan is just embarrassing and neither Genesis car is pushing the envelope when it comes to technology, ingenuity, or performance, it simply offers what the market wants at a attractive price, not that hard.

Honda should pay more attention to this site and other Honda sites because some here and there have predicted exactly what was going to happen and what is not going to work especially when it came to smart luxury, ILX, RLX, TLX, cost cut interiors, 2 screen touch, sticking with FWD/Accord/civic based platforms with everything, J series being top engine.



But would it really be embarrassing? In time the market will forget and move on. Pontiac, Olds, Plymouth and many other brands have come and gone. Not saying I want this to happen or will, but if Honda pulled the plug it would be a short term pain.

Great_Tubimi
Profile for Great_Tubimi
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-03-2017 05:12
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All these crocodile tears for Acura. Give me a break.

The MDX and RDX sell because they check all of the necessary boxes in the upscale SUV market, plus they have Honda reliability. Why are you even pretending that Acura carries some type of cache with it? Wouldn't the entry-level vehicle sell if people really wanted to be associated with the brand? That was the plan, right? Slap the "A" on a Civic and watch millennials break the door down to be part of the Acura family... Yeah. Not working too well.


Again, the NSX, which is built in America, is sold worldwide as a Honda. The S2000, which Acura desperately needed, was released as a Honda.


Honda is a worldwide brand. Acura is an American gimmick. It would not be missed. The brand was launched 30 years ago and it's a joke. You say as much when you call an smart luxury a failure. Why would there be embarrassment when the market has spoken? Pretending there is no problem is the embarrassing part. Pretending as if Honda didn't try a worldwide Acura launch that flopped is embarrassing.

Reintroduce SH-AWD to the RDX and that's all the distinction that would be needed. The NSX in Honda showrooms would quell any of your artificial worries.

Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-03-2017 09:46
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You're forgetting Average Transaction Price. Acura's is around $38,000. Honda's is around $25,000. There are only two ways to grow your business: get more people to buy or get the same number of people to spend more money. Leaving out the embarrassment and the infrastructure costs and changes - for Honda to match Acura's ~$6 billion in top line sales on 161,000 units sold Honda would have to sell ~245,000 vehicles at ~$25,000 each. I just don't think they would get there.

And Acura has a relatively low ATP among luxury brands. Honda's is somewhat low for a mainstream brand but full-size trucks screw that number up for the Big 3. The point being that Acura is probably more likely to raise their number than Honda is. That QX80 from Infiniti - it STARTS at $65,000. Infiniti sold ~17,000 of them last year. That's at least $1 billion in top line sales from 17,000 units. Honda would have to make and sell 40,000 units to match that dollar amount.

So Acura should stick around - the money making potential is just too high.

HONDA AFVM
Profile for HONDA AFVM
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-03-2017 10:45
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TSX69 wrote:
Ganplosive wrote:
3570 car sales.

I think the Lexus IS model alone probably outsold this amount...


Sadly, not even close. It is like Trump already imposed his tax on the imported vehicles. I had a crazy busy day so have only compared Honda Toyota but these #s are sad:

ILX 693 -43.8%
CT 393 -36.8%

ES 2,171 -36.1%
TLX 1,903 -15%
IS 1,423 -34.7%


GS 422 -67.5%
RLX 80 -18.4%; hybrid 11 -38.9%


LS 280 -29.5%


RC 447 -40.8%

NSX 50


NX 2,964 -5.4%

RX 5,520 -20.6%
RDX 3,202 +3.2%

MDX 3,274 -8.4%
GX 1,418 -11.8%


LX 534 -8.7%






Yaris 3,281 +37.4%
Fit 3,078 -.5%

Civic 23,095 -13.6%
Corolla 21,567 -8.7%

Camry 20,313 -24.3%
Accord 19,536 -5.9%; hybrid 1,711 +2,309.9%


Avalon 2,503 -30.4%


86 474 -6.5%

Prius 7,829 -15.9%

HR-V 5,689 +36.2%

CR-V 29,287 +52.5%
Rav4 22,155 +2.8%

HighLander 12,656 +12.4%
Pilot 7,180 -16.1%

Tacoma 12,509 -1.6%
RidgeLine 2,781 +133,950%

Sienna 7,285 -33.7%
Odyssey 6,500 -10%






The Tax is only for manufactures that leave the U.S. and then ship them back to America, not cars that are built in Japan, Mexico and where ever........ Trump understands that not every car can be made here....... Plus he just made a deal with Japan to bring 700,000 jobs here manufacturing many things and also to export LNG...... Of course its berries in the back pages and you have to google the exact wording to fine it........

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/03/reuters-america-japan-readies-package-for-trump-to-help-create-700000-us-jobs.html

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-03-2017 12:36
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
All these crocodile tears for Acura. Give me a break.

The MDX and RDX sell because they check all of the necessary boxes in the upscale SUV market, plus they have Honda reliability. Why are you even pretending that Acura carries some type of cache with it? Wouldn't the entry-level vehicle sell if people really wanted to be associated with the brand? That was the plan, right? Slap the "A" on a Civic and watch millennials break the door down to be part of the Acura family... Yeah. Not working too well.


Again, the NSX, which is built in America, is sold worldwide as a Honda. The S2000, which Acura desperately needed, was released as a Honda.


Honda is a worldwide brand. Acura is an American gimmick. It would not be missed. The brand was launched 30 years ago and it's a joke. You say as much when you call an smart luxury a failure. Why would there be embarrassment when the market has spoken? Pretending there is no problem is the embarrassing part. Pretending as if Honda didn't try a worldwide Acura launch that flopped is embarrassing.

Reintroduce SH-AWD to the RDX and that's all the distinction that would be needed. The NSX in Honda showrooms would quell any of your artificial worries.



MDX and RDX check all boxes? Really? Does MDX have Panoramic roof? Nope. Does Pilot have that? Yes.

MDX and RDX do well because they check MOST of the necessary boxes along with Honda reliability.

But like the Acura sedans, they are rather bland, and do not have certain features found in other competitors - namely head-up display, real wood, real nice leather, panoramic roof, digital cluster, etc.

It's exactly because Acura does not have the same cache as the other luxury makes, hence the RDX and MDX are priced lower. But, while they are no Lexus, BMW, MB, Audi, etc, they are still viewed above Honda. This is why Acura is able to sell them at their current pricing.



lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-03-2017 12:41
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
All these crocodile tears for Acura. Give me a break.

The MDX and RDX sell because they check all of the necessary boxes in the upscale SUV market, plus they have Honda reliability. Why are you even pretending that Acura carries some type of cache with it? Wouldn't the entry-level vehicle sell if people really wanted to be associated with the brand? That was the plan, right? Slap the "A" on a Civic and watch millennials break the door down to be part of the Acura family... Yeah. Not working too well.


Again, the NSX, which is built in America, is sold worldwide as a Honda. The S2000, which Acura desperately needed, was released as a Honda.


Honda is a worldwide brand. Acura is an American gimmick. It would not be missed. The brand was launched 30 years ago and it's a joke. You say as much when you call an smart luxury a failure. Why would there be embarrassment when the market has spoken? Pretending there is no problem is the embarrassing part. Pretending as if Honda didn't try a worldwide Acura launch that flopped is embarrassing.

Reintroduce SH-AWD to the RDX and that's all the distinction that would be needed. The NSX in Honda showrooms would quell any of your artificial worries.



You still don't get legacy and image and how much damage it would do to Honda to just give up and throw in the towel for the first Japanese upscale brand. Honda would be seen as a company with problems, in disarray, and many buyers may think this is proof Honda's best days are over and they are not coming back and could look else where.

It is not like Honda gave Acura what it needed to compete and they were making great cars but buyers ignored them if they were to kill Acura, it would be certain people at Honda were too stubborn and refused to give Acura what it needed, not giving Acura what it needed failed, and then they just gave up because they would rather kill a brand with so much history and potential then believe in it, invest in it, and give it the respect it deserves. It would be disastrous for Honda and their image in the US would be tarnished.

Crappy entry level vehicles won't sell no matter how good the brand which is why the ILX was never going to sell, same with the Lexus CT and failed Lexus HS250 and BMW 2 series which misses the mark. The sub entry level sedan market does not make much sense especially when you have mainstream brands selling the same basic car for much less.

The cost cut smart luxury ILX was a failed car/failed "strategy", it was not because Acura is a failed brand or can't sell cars. Same with the RLX. Acura has had a lot of success in the past when they executed cars correctly and they were competitive but the competition is improved drastically over the past 6-8 years and cars based on Accord/civic platforms just can't compete very well anymore especially when their interiors have heavy cost cutting and styling is bland.

Honda+ humble "Smart luxury" was the problem, not Acura, and if they do "green/eco luxury" or "needlessly complicated technology luxury" that will fail as well and fail worse especially if they don't get the basics right.

Look at Genesis sales of the G80 and G90, already creaming Acura competitors and other competitors from a brand new uplevel brand tied to Hyundai, they got the basics and pricing right, these cars are not pushing boundaries, are not groundbreaking, or doing anything shockingly new, great, or different, they just offer a competitive car that gets the basics right at a attractive price. It is not that hard and Acura should not still be struggling to figure that out.

Is Lexus also a gimmick because it was a US brand first and most sales come from the US? Lexus creates around half of Toyota's profits for a brand that does not sell well outside the US.

Acura is not a joke, Honda+ smart luxury, smart luxury vehicles, making the new civic a Acura, the RLX being a FWD Accord based "flagship with fake wood trim, and not giving Acura fully competitive Tier 1 platforms, engines, and cars is the joke especially when Acura has such a impressive beginning, past, and potential.

You don't address bad decisions, poor leadership, poor planning, and lack of competitiveness by simply giving up and throwing in the towel, you make good decisions, you replace the guys who insist on making Acura just Honda+ or some greenie experiment, and you make fully competitive models that don't hold back and set standards instead of constantly shooting under, often well under the standard in the industry hoping that will work out.

Honda is not some small brand that struggles and is in trouble like Mitsubishi or Suzuki, they have plenty of money and resources to make Acura competitive and successful but unfortunately they refuse to do it and it fails every time when they hold back and half ass it.



Great_Tubimi
Profile for Great_Tubimi
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-03-2017 17:16
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lexusgs wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
All these crocodile tears for Acura. Give me a break.

The MDX and RDX sell because they check all of the necessary boxes in the upscale SUV market, plus they have Honda reliability. Why are you even pretending that Acura carries some type of cache with it? Wouldn't the entry-level vehicle sell if people really wanted to be associated with the brand? That was the plan, right? Slap the "A" on a Civic and watch millennials break the door down to be part of the Acura family... Yeah. Not working too well.


Again, the NSX, which is built in America, is sold worldwide as a Honda. The S2000, which Acura desperately needed, was released as a Honda.


Honda is a worldwide brand. Acura is an American gimmick. It would not be missed. The brand was launched 30 years ago and it's a joke. You say as much when you call an smart luxury a failure. Why would there be embarrassment when the market has spoken? Pretending there is no problem is the embarrassing part. Pretending as if Honda didn't try a worldwide Acura launch that flopped is embarrassing.

Reintroduce SH-AWD to the RDX and that's all the distinction that would be needed. The NSX in Honda showrooms would quell any of your artificial worries.



You still don't get legacy and image and how much damage it would do to Honda to just give up and throw in the towel for the first Japanese upscale brand. Honda would be seen as a company with problems, in disarray, and many buyers may think this is proof Honda's best days are over and they are not coming back and could look else where.

It is not like Honda gave Acura what it needed to compete and they were making great cars but buyers ignored them if they were to kill Acura, it would be certain people at Honda were too stubborn and refused to give Acura what it needed, not giving Acura what it needed failed, and then they just gave up because they would rather kill a brand with so much history and potential then believe in it, invest in it, and give it the respect it deserves. It would be disastrous for Honda and their image in the US would be tarnished.

Crappy entry level vehicles won't sell no matter how good the brand which is why the ILX was never going to sell, same with the Lexus CT and failed Lexus HS250 and BMW 2 series which misses the mark. The sub entry level sedan market does not make much sense especially when you have mainstream brands selling the same basic car for much less.

The cost cut smart luxury ILX was a failed car/failed "strategy", it was not because Acura is a failed brand or can't sell cars. Same with the RLX. Acura has had a lot of success in the past when they executed cars correctly and they were competitive but the competition is improved drastically over the past 6-8 years and cars based on Accord/civic platforms just can't compete very well anymore especially when their interiors have heavy cost cutting and styling is bland.

Honda+ humble "Smart luxury" was the problem, not Acura, and if they do "green/eco luxury" or "needlessly complicated technology luxury" that will fail as well and fail worse especially if they don't get the basics right.

Look at Genesis sales of the G80 and G90, already creaming Acura competitors and other competitors from a brand new uplevel brand tied to Hyundai, they got the basics and pricing right, these cars are not pushing boundaries, are not groundbreaking, or doing anything shockingly new, great, or different, they just offer a competitive car that gets the basics right at a attractive price. It is not that hard and Acura should not still be struggling to figure that out.

Is Lexus also a gimmick because it was a US brand first and most sales come from the US? Lexus creates around half of Toyota's profits for a brand that does not sell well outside the US.

Acura is not a joke, Honda+ smart luxury, smart luxury vehicles, making the new civic a Acura, the RLX being a FWD Accord based "flagship with fake wood trim, and not giving Acura fully competitive Tier 1 platforms, engines, and cars is the joke especially when Acura has such a impressive beginning, past, and potential.

You don't address bad decisions, poor leadership, poor planning, and lack of competitiveness by simply giving up and throwing in the towel, you make good decisions, you replace the guys who insist on making Acura just Honda+ or some greenie experiment, and you make fully competitive models that don't hold back and set standards instead of constantly shooting under, often well under the standard in the industry hoping that will work out.

Honda is not some small brand that struggles and is in trouble like Mitsubishi or Suzuki, they have plenty of money and resources to make Acura competitive and successful but unfortunately they refuse to do it and it fails every time when they hold back and half ass it.





How dare you try to drag Lexus down to Acura's level? It's rude and disingenuous. Toyota didn't screw the pooch on that one. They didn't screw up on their hybrid endeavors either. Honda being first at something clearly doesn't make them the best and being in denial of that fact doesn't help matters. Have some dignity and pull the plug. A relaunch, after some real R&D towards a clear mission and vision within the luxury markets to include Acura-specific platforms and drivetrains, is still possible.

GoFaster
Profile for GoFaster
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-03-2017 17:41
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ILX at 693 and Civic a whopping Civic 23,095, the ILX sells in a month less than the Civic in a day. But, this is really interesting to ponder as to what Acura does now. There will be Civic Coupe/Sedan/Hatch and then Si and Type-R. There isn't anything left for a FWD Civic platformed ILX. Perforated leather and memory seats are not going to be enough.

What would you do, within reason of what Acura might actually do? A 2.0T SH-AWD would be interesting. A less raceboy looking Focus RS. The Civic is so good it has killed the ILX.

Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-03-2017 17:51
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Hondarulez wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
All these crocodile tears for Acura. Give me a break.

The MDX and RDX sell because they check all of the necessary boxes in the upscale SUV market, plus they have Honda reliability. Why are you even pretending that Acura carries some type of cache with it? Wouldn't the entry-level vehicle sell if people really wanted to be associated with the brand? That was the plan, right? Slap the "A" on a Civic and watch millennials break the door down to be part of the Acura family... Yeah. Not working too well.


Again, the NSX, which is built in America, is sold worldwide as a Honda. The S2000, which Acura desperately needed, was released as a Honda.


Honda is a worldwide brand. Acura is an American gimmick. It would not be missed. The brand was launched 30 years ago and it's a joke. You say as much when you call an smart luxury a failure. Why would there be embarrassment when the market has spoken? Pretending there is no problem is the embarrassing part. Pretending as if Honda didn't try a worldwide Acura launch that flopped is embarrassing.

Reintroduce SH-AWD to the RDX and that's all the distinction that would be needed. The NSX in Honda showrooms would quell any of your artificial worries.



MDX and RDX check all boxes? Really? Does MDX have Panoramic roof? Nope. Does Pilot have that? Yes.

MDX and RDX do well because they check MOST of the necessary boxes along with Honda reliability.

But like the Acura sedans, they are rather bland, and do not have certain features found in other competitors - namely head-up display, real wood, real nice leather, panoramic roof, digital cluster, etc.

It's exactly because Acura does not have the same cache as the other luxury makes, hence the RDX and MDX are priced lower. But, while they are no Lexus, BMW, MB, Audi, etc, they are still viewed above Honda. This is why Acura is able to sell them at their current pricing.




Good luck finding a Pilot with pano roof (not really pano IMO more like two moonroofs) they are almost as rare as sport hybrid. MDX now offers real wood in top trim, heads up warning for safety suite and turn by turn etc at an eyes glance, which makes HUD redundant atleast in an SUV but they are slowly starting to get it. My wife who cares nothing about cars I thought I would have a hard time swaying her away from the Pilot because she liked the fact it was big and was set on one as our next family hauler. As soon as she sat in the inside completely turned off, she said it felt cheap compared to the MDX (and that was compared with the 16 MY, they improved on MY 17). My brief time poking around in the Pilot found the seat cushion with a visable zipper where the back connects with the cushion as opposed to stitched in the Acura and a lot more hard plastic.

There are enough people still out there that associate Acura with doing well for oneself, they have screwed up but shutting things down is not the answer. As Honda has step up its game that should naturally force the next round of Acura's up, will they get it right is a different story . We are very happy with our 17 ADV/ENT MDX it offers a lot for the money while I question the use of materials and the craftsmanship or lack of in some areas I can see why it sells. Also keep in mind your typical Honda buyer (no offense) is not going to spend 50K + on a vechicle thats not why they buy Honda. Shit you have some on here wanting a new S2000 at 30 to 40k, it aint going to happen, if its going to be an improvement over the last its going to cost or dont bother calling it S2000.

Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-03-2017 18:48
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GoFaster wrote:
ILX at 693 and Civic a whopping Civic 23,095, the ILX sells in a month less than the Civic in a day. But, this is really interesting to ponder as to what Acura does now. There will be Civic Coupe/Sedan/Hatch and then Si and Type-R. There isn't anything left for a FWD Civic platformed ILX. Perforated leather and memory seats are not going to be enough.

What would you do, within reason of what Acura might actually do? A 2.0T SH-AWD would be interesting. A less raceboy looking Focus RS. The Civic is so good it has killed the ILX.



Cancel the ILX. Replace it with:

CDX 200+ hp 1.5T* SHAWD starting at $28K. Not the Chinese market CDX - but one built off the Civic/Accord/CR-V architecture - it could then be built alongside the TLX/Accord at Marysville or in any factory really. IIRC there was a rumor that the next-gen ILX and Civic Hatch are somewhat closely related...just jack up the height a few inches and call it a CDX or IDX or whatever. If it's an SUV people will buy it!

Add:

Integra 3 door hatch 265 hp 2.0T SHAWD $32K and up. Type-S Integra is basically a 3 door hatch Type-R with SHAWD and an automatic for right around $40K. I have no idea how well this will sell but I know that Acura's best sales years have included a 3-door hatch at a very accessible price point. So let's do it.

TLX gets all the variants moving forward: 1.5T*, 2.0T, 3.0T, Sport Hybrid. It's their volume sedan and they throw the kitchen sink at it from $33K to $50K+. It also is technically their "entry" sedan, which is as it should be. Then Acura can add the RLX/Legend on top. Acura shouldn't have more than 3 sedans and the TLX has shown much better success from $33-$36K than the ILX has or probably ever will. Just embrace it. If for some reason the sedan market comes back they just add a 4-door/5-door Integra variant starting at $28/29K.

*If Acura wants to put out a detuned 2.0T with under 220 hp then that will work just fine obviously. I wouldn't mind if the 1.5T stayed out of the Acura lineup entirely.

I believe in that plan because I don't think Acura can support an ILX and an Integra and a TLX AND a CDX below $35K - and I firmly believe they should bring back the Integra nameplate.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-03-2017 19:33
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Potenza wrote:
TSX69 wrote:
Ganplosive wrote:
3570 car sales.

I think the Lexus IS model alone probably outsold this amount...


not even close.

ES 2,171 -36.1%
TLX 1,903 -15%
IS 1,423 -34.7%

Sure is easier to just guess the facts!

Looks like the two models sold in almost identical numbers the past two years.

2016

IS 37,289
TLX 37,156

2015

IS 46,430
TLX 47,080

Not bad considering the IS is on an FR chassis, available in RWD and AWD, turbo-4 and two V6 trims, and F-Sport versions of all 3 trims. And of course the TLX is just a bland, beaked Accord.




The TLX is also significantly larger than the IS and I believe the IS has higher average transaction prices. The TLX really should be doing better.

A77X
Profile for A77X
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-04-2017 10:58
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Fitdad wrote:
GoFaster wrote:
ILX at 693 and Civic a whopping Civic 23,095, the ILX sells in a month less than the Civic in a day. But, this is really interesting to ponder as to what Acura does now. There will be Civic Coupe/Sedan/Hatch and then Si and Type-R. There isn't anything left for a FWD Civic platformed ILX. Perforated leather and memory seats are not going to be enough.

What would you do, within reason of what Acura might actually do? A 2.0T SH-AWD would be interesting. A less raceboy looking Focus RS. The Civic is so good it has killed the ILX.



Cancel the ILX. Replace it with:

CDX 200+ hp 1.5T* SHAWD starting at $28K. Not the Chinese market CDX - but one built off the Civic/Accord/CR-V architecture - it could then be built alongside the TLX/Accord at Marysville or in any factory really. IIRC there was a rumor that the next-gen ILX and Civic Hatch are somewhat closely related...just jack up the height a few inches and call it a CDX or IDX or whatever. If it's an SUV people will buy it!

Add:

Integra 3 door hatch 265 hp 2.0T SHAWD $32K and up. Type-S Integra is basically a 3 door hatch Type-R with SHAWD and an automatic for right around $40K. I have no idea how well this will sell but I know that Acura's best sales years have included a 3-door hatch at a very accessible price point. So let's do it.

TLX gets all the variants moving forward: 1.5T*, 2.0T, 3.0T, Sport Hybrid. It's their volume sedan and they throw the kitchen sink at it from $33K to $50K+. It also is technically their "entry" sedan, which is as it should be. Then Acura can add the RLX/Legend on top. Acura shouldn't have more than 3 sedans and the TLX has shown much better success from $33-$36K than the ILX has or probably ever will. Just embrace it. If for some reason the sedan market comes back they just add a 4-door/5-door Integra variant starting at $28/29K.

*If Acura wants to put out a detuned 2.0T with under 220 hp then that will work just fine obviously. I wouldn't mind if the 1.5T stayed out of the Acura lineup entirely.

I believe in that plan because I don't think Acura can support an ILX and an Integra and a TLX AND a CDX below $35K - and I firmly believe they should bring back the Integra nameplate.



The 1.5 has no place in an Acura - its inherently not refined enough for a luxury brand. A detuned 2.0T ought to be fine, assuming its still a K series with balancer shafts. Good plan overall!

NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: Acura [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-04-2017 11:30
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Fitdad wrote:
GoFaster wrote:
ILX at 693 and Civic a whopping Civic 23,095, the ILX sells in a month less than the Civic in a day. But, this is really interesting to ponder as to what Acura does now. There will be Civic Coupe/Sedan/Hatch and then Si and Type-R. There isn't anything left for a FWD Civic platformed ILX. Perforated leather and memory seats are not going to be enough.

What would you do, within reason of what Acura might actually do? A 2.0T SH-AWD would be interesting. A less raceboy looking Focus RS. The Civic is so good it has killed the ILX.



Add:

Integra 3 door hatch 265 hp 2.0T SHAWD $32K and up. Type-S Integra is basically a 3 door hatch Type-R with SHAWD and an automatic for right around $40K. I have no idea how well this will sell but I know that Acura's best sales years have included a 3-door hatch at a very accessible price point. So let's do it.


I really want some kind of a 3-door! Please!!!


 
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