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TOV Forums > Professional Motorsports > > Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers

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JeffX
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 10:22
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Grace141 wrote:
JeffX wrote:
Vxtec wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
Is anyone not seeing this as a piece of cake for Hamilton as long as Bottas has a clean race? My guess is the Red Bulls will spend the race battling with Vettel.

Points for Gasly?





Lets hope so and a clean race (no incidents) for both STR drivers.




JINX!!!


The Sky guys are talking about Gasly sliding into Ocon but it looked like Ocon cut across Gasly pretty sharply.

So Hamilton now sees Verstappen in his mirrors. We may have a real race to watch.



yes, it appeared that Gasly went from having plenty of road ahead of him to having absolutely none after being cut off by Ocon. So he had to get on the brakes sooner and harder than he had planned, while trying to make an evasive maneuver.


Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Pre-Race    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 10:25
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Safety Car already - Vettel hits Bottas, both sustain damage!

Return to pits, to repair damage, and out running at the back in 17th and 18th position. That's bad luck...

But worse, Gasly and Ocon, two French drivers, collide and are already out of the race!

Hartley is currently running 13th...and safety car finishes.

danielgr
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 10:26
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JeffX wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
JeffX wrote:
Vxtec wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
Is anyone not seeing this as a piece of cake for Hamilton as long as Bottas has a clean race? My guess is the Red Bulls will spend the race battling with Vettel.

Points for Gasly?





Lets hope so and a clean race (no incidents) for both STR drivers.




JINX!!!


The Sky guys are talking about Gasly sliding into Ocon but it looked like Ocon cut across Gasly pretty sharply.

So Hamilton now sees Verstappen in his mirrors. We may have a real race to watch.



yes, it appeared that Gasly went from having plenty of road ahead of him to having absolutely none after being cut off by Ocon. So he had to get on the brakes sooner and harder than he had planned, while trying to make an evasive maneuver.



They now say it'll be investigated after the race, but based on the million replays I've seen now, I think it'll go as no-one's blame.

Gasly had taken it quite safe through the start, was not desperate to gain places, and as you guys said, Ocon made a sudden change who left him with not enough room for braking. It's just unfortunate I guess.

400K
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[semi-spoiler] Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Pre-Race    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 10:30
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(I will try to not spoil)

We have a weird accident, the X driver chooses a different line to overtake two in front of him, but he is not calculates the back Y driver. The X turns sharp, the Y seems suprised, turns in to avoid the collision but he breaks *and* steers. He looses the car and KABOOM!

Vxtec
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Re: [semi-spoiler] F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Pre-Race    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 10:37
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Hartley goes back (from 13th) to 15th position with both Vettel and Bottas passing him...well there goes any chance of points I suppose!

Any rain coming? ;-)

Grace141
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Re: [semi-spoiler] F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Pre-Race    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 10:40
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Vxtec wrote:
Hartley goes back (from 13th) to 15th position with both Vettel and Bottas passing him...well there goes any chance of points I suppose!

Any rain coming? ;-)


I didn't see Hartley stop during the SC either so he needs to stop. We might get to see Hartley race Vandoorne straight up for a bit though.

sadlerau
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Re: [semi-spoiler] F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Pre-Race    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 10:49
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Hartley was gaining on Vandoorne for a few laps, getting within 2.2 seconds behind, but now is dropping back markedly - stuffed tyres?
Vxtec
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Re: [semi-spoiler] F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Pre-Race    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 10:56
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sadlerau wrote:
Hartley was gaining on Vandoorne for a few laps, getting within 2.2 seconds behind, but now is dropping back markedly - stuffed tyres?


Yes, Hartley on Ultrasofts and Vandoorne on Supersofts.

JeffX
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Re: [semi-spoiler] F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Pre-Race    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 10:58
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sadlerau wrote:
Hartley was gaining on Vandoorne for a few laps, getting within 2.2 seconds behind, but now is dropping back markedly - stuffed tyres?


yes once again they go out with a terrible tyre strategy. At the pre race the were saying the ultras were good for about 15 laps but the teams would try to push 20 or more. as I type this Hartley's on 25 laps with the ultras and will likely pit from 14th. he could go to softs and finish the race but I don't see him gaining any meaningful spots without weather or a safety car



Last edited by JeffX on 06-24-2018 10:59
Grace141
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 11:00
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sadlerau wrote:
Hartley was gaining on Vandoorne for a few laps, getting within 2.2 seconds behind, but now is dropping back markedly - stuffed tyres?

Hartley's still on ultrasofts so I'd guessed so.

Vxtec
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Re: [semi-spoiler] F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Pre-Race    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 11:03
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Leclerc is also on Ultrasofts and is going backwards, passed by Hulkenberg on Supersofts… Leclerc is currently 9th but soon will be challenged by Bottas.

Vxtec
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Re: [semi-spoiler] F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Pre-Race    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 11:09
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On another front, not talking about tyre strategies... but rather power units...

Perez has pulled into the pits and told to stop because of a Mercedes 2.1 Spec issue! Well, well, well...

Vxtec
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Re: [semi-spoiler] F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Pre-Race    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 11:14
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Grosjean is given a 5s time penalty for the first-lap crash...triggering the Ocon and Gasly shunt! Justice only to a certain extent as Gasly and Ocon are out of the race on lap1.
sadlerau
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Re: [semi-spoiler] F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Pre-Race    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 11:22
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Can someone please explain the tyre strategy Hartley is on??
Grace141
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 11:24
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sadlerau wrote:
Can someone please explain the tyre strategy Hartley is on??

We'll have to get back to you.

Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 11:28
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Grace141 wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
Can someone please explain the tyre strategy Hartley is on??

We'll have to get back to you.


Hartley comes in on lap 38/53 and replaces Ultrasofts with Supersofts.

Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 11:37
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Unfortunately, Ricciardo is out of a podium position (having suffered wing damage from debris hitting his car)... as Raikkonen passes him for third place!

sadlerau
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 11:38
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I think I've worked it out, he's racing for 13th, rather than 12th. :)
Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 11:56
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Hamilton wins and retakes driver's championship lead... Verstappen second and Raikkonen third. Congratulation to the podium finishes.

Ricciardo finishes fourth with a damaged wing!

Hartley finishes 14th (starting from 20th and last position)... second last of those who finished the race.

Alonso retires with suspension problem...again no real surprise in a McLaren car!

What could have been if Gasly was not wiped out of the race? Maybe a point or two since he did start the race in 14th position on Supersofts (rather than Hartley's Ultrasofts).


Well onto two more races, Austrian and British GPs, in the next two weeks.

Come on Toro Rosso-Honda! Lets collect some points at least in the next two races!

Grace141
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 12:09
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OK, Sky running the race highlights with the Mario Brothers-like background music was funny.

I'm still puzzled by Red Bull pulling the trigger on switching to Honda for 2019. Renault is still finding power problems but, unless Hartley kept getting lost on the course or RB is up to speed with mapping troubles Honda is working on, it all seems like a huge leap of faith. Maybe there is still a line for Honda to cross and make some real progress but it doesn't seem to happened yet.

400K
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 12:21
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Very bad race. I din't understood the tyre strategy.

Vxtec wrote:
Hartley finishes 14th (starting from 20th and last position)... second last of those who finished the race.


Another fact: Hartley is finished second from last position. 6 DNF's! This is not good. Either car is rubbish, or driver, or both. But in this case also the strategy was rubbish. Too many laps with ultrasoft.

F1 Results: France

The only good thing is reliability, seems better than previous years.

Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 12:26
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Grace141 wrote:
OK, Sky running the race highlights with the Mario Brothers-like background music was funny.

I'm still puzzled by Red Bull pulling the trigger on switching to Honda for 2019. Renault is still finding power problems but, unless Hartley kept getting lost on the course or RB is up to speed with mapping troubles Honda is working on, it all seems like a huge leap of faith. Maybe there is still a line for Honda to cross and make some real progress but it doesn't seem to happened yet.



Lets see what happens in the next few races, as well as the result of the investigation into Hartley's PU issue (and whether the thumps which putting him out at the start of the Canadian race had any detrimental effects).

Furthermore, I hope Gasly's PU will not have suffered any detrimental effects from this race with the shunt, again in the first lap that put him out, with Ocon.

We will know soon enough!

I am sure everyone here at TOV who follows F1 races, would like to see both STR drivers have clean race weekends, with no issues or incidents! Lets hope so for the up-coming races.

Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 12:46
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400K wrote:
Very bad race. I din't understood the tyre strategy.

Vxtec wrote:
Hartley finishes 14th (starting from 20th and last position)... second last of those who finished the race.


Another fact: Hartley is finished second from last position. 6 DNF's! This is not good. Either car is rubbish, or driver, or both. But in this case also the strategy was rubbish. Too many laps with ultrasoft.

F1 Results: France

The only good thing is reliability, seems better than previous years.



Tyre strategy seemed odd, however...

Gasly started on Supersofts in 14th position like the Mercedes and Red Bull drivers.

Hartley started on Ultrasofts from 20th and last position... so maybe STR decided on this choice to hopefully be able to gain a few positions at the start and early in the race...and maybe they also gambled on rain coming (which never occurred) during the race, particularly, in the pit stop window expected to replace Hartley's tyres.

OR maybe STR just simply wanted to split tyre strategies between the two drivers...and maybe give them a better chance of hitting the pit stop window if rain arrived with at least one of their drivers.

Nevertheless, the pit-stop for Hartleys car was done in a quick 2.1 seconds. Well done STR - that was a positive achievement! :-)

JeffX
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 14:50
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Vxtec wrote:
400K wrote:
Very bad race. I din't understood the tyre strategy.

Vxtec wrote:
Hartley finishes 14th (starting from 20th and last position)... second last of those who finished the race.


Another fact: Hartley is finished second from last position. 6 DNF's! This is not good. Either car is rubbish, or driver, or both. But in this case also the strategy was rubbish. Too many laps with ultrasoft.

F1 Results: France

The only good thing is reliability, seems better than previous years.



Tyre strategy seemed odd, however...

Gasly started on Supersofts in 14th position like the Mercedes and Red Bull drivers.

Hartley started on Ultrasofts from 20th and last position... so maybe STR decided on this choice to hopefully be able to gain a few positions at the start and early in the race...and maybe they also gambled on rain coming (which never occurred) during the race, particularly, in the pit stop window expected to replace Hartley's tyres.

OR maybe STR just simply wanted to split tyre strategies between the two drivers...and maybe give them a better chance of hitting the pit stop window if rain arrived with at least one of their drivers.

Nevertheless, the pit-stop for Hartleys car was done in a quick 2.1 seconds. Well done STR - that was a positive achievement! :-)



To me, the only reason you use ultrasofts would be for a short stint where you go set some seriously cooking laptimes and hope to advance far enough through the field to where you can survive a pit stop, upon which point you strap on the more durable tyres and go for a prolonged stint where you fight hard and try to outlast your opponents. As the fuel load decreases then you can balance out the tyre wear and hold or maybe even improve your laptimes.

i didn't see a lap chart for Hartley but from what I saw it seemed like his fastest laps on the ultras were not any better than some of the guys who were out there around him on the softs or supersofts. then the laptimes started fading badly and he stayed out another 15+ laps, and he drifted back further and further. WHY??

400K
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 17:35
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JeffX wrote:
i didn't see a lap chart for Hartley but from what I saw it seemed like his fastest laps on the ultras were not any better than some of the guys who were out there around him on the softs or supersofts. then the laptimes started fading badly and he stayed out another 15+ laps, and he drifted back further and further. WHY??


From 17th lap onwards he is losing time to VAN. And he made the pitstop in lap 39, after 22 laps! This is madness or testing session.

Sainz I think he made 30 laps with Ultras.

The fast car (see VET) goes from last to 5th position in 15 laps, OTOH Torro Rosso...

sadlerau
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 18:57
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400K wrote:
The fast car (see VET) goes from last to 5th position in 15 laps, OTOH Torro Rosso...


While there is no comparison between the speed of the Ferrari and the Torro Rosso, Vettel's climb up the field was aided somewhat by the lack of pace shown by the customer Ferrari engined cars down the straights when Vettel was attempting to pass. :)

IntegraDC5R
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-24-2018 23:18
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JeffX wrote:

To me, the only reason you use ultrasofts would be for a short stint where you go set some seriously cooking laptimes and hope to advance far enough through the field to where you can survive a pit stop, upon which point you strap on the more durable tyres and go for a prolonged stint where you fight hard and try to outlast your opponents. As the fuel load decreases then you can balance out the tyre wear and hold or maybe even improve your laptimes.

i didn't see a lap chart for Hartley but from what I saw it seemed like his fastest laps on the ultras were not any better than some of the guys who were out there around him on the softs or supersofts. then the laptimes started fading badly and he stayed out another 15+ laps, and he drifted back further and further. WHY??



Rain was expected and I honestly believe they were hoping they could pull just a 1 stopper right as the rain came versus pitting and possibly pitting just a lap or whatever later. It just never came and they kept holding out waiting on it, finally caved as it was apparent that the rain was not going to deliver itself.

Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2018 00:10
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Quotes from race review comments...

Toyoharu Tanabe (Honda F1 Technical Director):

"A race to forget, but at least we can try and do better, starting this coming Friday in Austria."

Scuderia Toro Rosso:

"We will bounce back next week in Austria!"

I agree with those sentiments...

Go Toro Rosso-Honda! Go! Go! Go!

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2018 05:39
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Ocon, Gasly, and Vettel had too much of the circuit builder main selling product, in their veins, perhaps?



Hopefully, they will not be too much distracted by



In Austria next week end...


gofast182
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Re: F1 - 2018 French Grand Prix - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2018 07:07
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Since it was mentioned I'm sticking to my guns that Martin Brundle's grid walk is utter shit not worthy of broadcast. He walks around like an old lost dog trying to find people to talk to and narrating his failures. In contrast Will Buxton would set up the race in his high-energy way while he was looking for people to talk to.

Overall that was a pretty exciting race if you take Toro Rosso's (and Williams', and Force India's) plight out of it. VET was right that his start was too good, it left him with nowhere to go. As for Niki Lauda crying that the penalty was too soft, hitting BOT and ruining the race for himself and his team was a massive self penalty so I'm OK with 5s after that.

Mercedes' spec 2.1 engine really appeared to be a legitimate answer for Ferrari. I respect excellence, I truly do, but I don't want to see another string oh HAM wins and Merc. winning the constructor's title again.

For Red Bull it was a relatively quiet but strong race; not much more to say about it.

Brilliant drive from MAG at Haas to stay out of trouble at the start, hold position in the middle, and fight off BOT for the last ~10 laps bringing home some valuable points. What's to be done about GRO? This weekend we had another unassisted crash and during the race he did come over on OCO.

Renault is about where I expected them to be but it's clear they are not on top of their PU issues yet.

Sauber continues to reestablish itself as it works with better management, driver, and a current year PU. As for Leclerc, he's a very talented driver but I wonder what Ferrari does here? Their MO would normally be to make sure he has a few years of F1 experience under his belt before earning a drive with the Scuderia but one can't help but wonder if they will be tempted by the "Verstappen effect" and bring on a young guy.

McLaren. Wow. As I said earlier, I think we'll see management in tribal counsel this year and it will be interesting to see who gets voted off the island. I'm still taking enjoyment in ALO's F1 struggles after how he (and the team) savaged Honda last year...if only they had a different engine in their 'awesome' chassis. Well that draggy POS kept both team members back in the order as ALO complained on the radio through the race and then failed miserably at a fast lap attempt at the end of the race.

Williams. Wow. It's almost like McLaren and Williams are sharing chassis design services but their position is even worse. They need some big changes and I'll suggest that the Stroll family money and influence on the team may be part of the problem.

Bringing it back to Honda. Let's look at quali. which is really the best measure of engine power relative to the chassis. Look at where they slotted in compared to Red Bull, Renault, and McLaren. Just behind the works Renault team which arguably has more resources and no chassis compromises to fit their PU like we know STR has this year. Knowing that they still aren't running this new engine fully optimized it occurs to me that the Honda PU is putting out power equal to or ever so slightly ahead of Renault.




 
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