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Archknight77
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-29-2019 14:54
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I just think Acura’s sedan lineup is structured really poorly and they should be doing all they can to promote the TLX as a compact as they re-launch the sedan brand.



Fitdad, I agree with you that th he TLX needs to be more in line with its competitive set. Acura has to move its positioning further upmarket and drop the mainstream NA4 from the lineup. First off it shouldn't start in the low 30k range which wrecks the pricing structure for Acura models. If it's competing in the lux compact segment at most it should be 188" long, they could get away with it being wider. Honestly, if you asked the average buyer what class the current model was in they probably wouldn't be able to tell you. Acura needs a clear definition of what their targets are in the market.



Last edited by JMU R1 on 01-29-2019 15:35
smArt
Profile for smArt
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-29-2019 15:36
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Fitdad wrote:
^That sounds great - but the article specifically says that the TLX will be a “midsize” and the ILX will be a “compact”. And they will, if that is the case, very likely to be priced up against the competitions compact and sub-compact offerings. Which means they are not so easily defined.

And here’s the really dumb thing: if the idea is to get young millenials into the brand with the ILX and then keep them buying Acura’s - where do those buyers go AFTER their lease is up? If a person is interested in the sub-entry/sub-compact class of luxury vehicles - are they then going to purchase a midsize TLX as their next vehicle? I think the odds are low - certainly a lot lower than if the TLX was an actual compact. Put it another way: would someone go from an A3 to an A6? So the only option for those buyers is...another ILX.

Meanwhile Audi has the A4, A3 variants, and A5 variants. BMW has the 2 series/3 series/4 series. Merc has the CLA, A, and C/C Coupe that are all compacts and all potential purchases.

So - again - I don’t disagree with the idea of the ILX - Acura is just screwing up how they are structuring things. And lineup structure is a big part of the reason why Acura has struggled for sales for so long: they have no long term plan.


The TLX will be defined by it's quality and performance more than anything else. I think you may be way too focused on the idea of compact and midsize. Look at the TLX, which is currently midsize, and the C class. They don't look much different in size. Now there is a major difference in interior QUALITY. Acura needs to address this with the next gen.

Btw, getting rid of the ILX to make the TLX a compact would still mean they'd need a subcompact ILX. The correct idea of the ILX is to be an entry level Acura that is smaller and more affordable than the TLX but more premium than a mainstream Honda. They've got to get the premium part right.

Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-29-2019 15:58
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smArt wrote:
Fitdad wrote:
^That sounds great - but the article specifically says that the TLX will be a “midsize” and the ILX will be a “compact”. And they will, if that is the case, very likely to be priced up against the competitions compact and sub-compact offerings. Which means they are not so easily defined.

And here’s the really dumb thing: if the idea is to get young millenials into the brand with the ILX and then keep them buying Acura’s - where do those buyers go AFTER their lease is up? If a person is interested in the sub-entry/sub-compact class of luxury vehicles - are they then going to purchase a midsize TLX as their next vehicle? I think the odds are low - certainly a lot lower than if the TLX was an actual compact. Put it another way: would someone go from an A3 to an A6? So the only option for those buyers is...another ILX.

Meanwhile Audi has the A4, A3 variants, and A5 variants. BMW has the 2 series/3 series/4 series. Merc has the CLA, A, and C/C Coupe that are all compacts and all potential purchases.

So - again - I don’t disagree with the idea of the ILX - Acura is just screwing up how they are structuring things. And lineup structure is a big part of the reason why Acura has struggled for sales for so long: they have no long term plan.


The TLX will be defined by it's quality and performance more than anything else. I think you may be way too focused on the idea of compact and midsize. Look at the TLX, which is currently midsize, and the C class. They don't look much different in size. Now there is a major difference in interior QUALITY. Acura needs to address this with the next gen.

Btw, getting rid of the ILX to make the TLX a compact would still mean they'd need a subcompact ILX. The correct idea of the ILX is to be an entry level Acura that is smaller and more affordable than the TLX but more premium than a mainstream Honda. They've got to get the premium part right.


Actually because the TLX shrunk, i believe interior volume wise it is now classified as a compact. TLX needs to grow in my opnion back to the old TL days with a longer wheelbase and tighter front and rear overhangs. If they are keeping the ILX make it a tweener but a true compact maybe in lift back form so there is some difference with TLX. Stay away from the subcompact class as it will waterdown the brand. The german can play here because they have higher profit margins and are using this class to lure in more buyers. If you poke around the materials are not that good, not sure on the newer wave of product, but Acura cant afford to make those mistakes and the public will be less forgiving because of the lack of prestige

NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-29-2019 16:05
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They need to rethink the character line of the yellow LEDs in the headlamps - or consider light tubes.
Jaynise842003
Profile for Jaynise842003
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-29-2019 16:41
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They need to just redesign the entire headlight unit. Its the same basic since the 2014 rlx/mdx my. The whole jewel eye thing is a little long in the tooth imo. The headlights on the new rd look good with the redesign but I still think they could have changed it up just for the sake of change
Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-29-2019 21:50
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Archknight77 wrote:
smArt wrote:
Why do people want the ILX gone so bad. The potential for this model is strong, and it would be a mistake to get rid of it.
A Civic sized Acura that's more premium than an Accord and comes with a 2.0T and sh-awd sounds like a good thing for the Acura brand, plus there is no Honda like it. Acura needs more cars and the ILX has it's place.

Merecedes has both an A class and a CLA in this class. BMW has the 2 series and is coming out with a fwd 2 series gran coupe. Audi has the A3... This class of vehicle is the most likely place for Acura to have a best in class product.

These entry luxury compacts are getting more premium.
2020 Mercedes CLA




People who don't understand that segment of buyers are the only ones hating on the ILX. Acura just missed the mark on making a truly premium offering for an entry level model. Apparently there must be a market for it or else MB wouldn't have 2 models in the segment, BMW wouldn't be bringing the 2 series to the US in FWD guise, GM wouldn't be looking at a RWD segment killer, and Audi would have stepped away from the market completely. Instead they kept improving the models after seeing how successful they can be. The ILX should be the best combination of Civic's size and handling with the luxury of Accord's Touring model. With this reboot they have a chance at being class leaders, they just can't keep listening to people who want them to be a "value" brand.



The root of the problem, Japanese management and the shareholders. They’re the ones who don’t given AHM full control. If AHM had full control of Honda/Acura, we’d most definitely see more aggressive and competitive product execution.

Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-29-2019 22:08
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Archknight77 wrote:


I just think Acura’s sedan lineup is structured really poorly and they should be doing all they can to promote the TLX as a compact as they re-launch the sedan brand.



Fitdad, I agree with you that th he TLX needs to be more in line with its competitive set. Acura has to move its positioning further upmarket and drop the mainstream NA4 from the lineup. First off it shouldn't start in the low 30k range which wrecks the pricing structure for Acura models. If it's competing in the lux compact segment at most it should be 188" long, they could get away with it being wider. Honestly, if you asked the average buyer what class the current model was in they probably wouldn't be able to tell you. Acura needs a clear definition of what their targets are in the market.



That will happen as the base car with get a 2.0t and the Type-S will get the 3.0t. The current 2.4 competes with the 320i/A4 FWD while the V6 TLX competes with the 330i and the A4 2.0t Quattro. The next gen TLX will compete with the 330i/340i and the A4 2.0t Quattro/S4. I expect a increase in base price to around $36-37K with it topping out somewhere between $50-55k.

Archknight77
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-29-2019 22:24
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"Acura will deliver a redesigned TLX midsize sedan this year, followed by a new ILX compact sedan and new-generation MDX midsize crossover in the year that follows."

That statement makes it sound like Acura will take the tweener route with the TLX and ILX, which wouldn't be a bad idea. The models could at least share a platform, engines, etc without having to resort to scavenging from the mainstream line of Honda except for a the base 2.0T. Since they didn't shy away from the notion of having a 122" wheelbase model when they previewed the "Precision Concept", I could see a model replacing the RLX close to those dimensions in the future.

Vtec_rally
Profile for Vtec_rally
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-29-2019 23:30
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I couldn't see the head office in Tokyo ever relinquishing ultimate control over Acura. They will always maintain a say in the final decisions of their subsidiaries.

The best that Acura can hope for is a good advocate who can communicate and persuade the top brass.

Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-30-2019 00:35
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Archknight77 wrote:
"Acura will deliver a redesigned TLX midsize sedan this year, followed by a new ILX compact sedan and new-generation MDX midsize crossover in the year that follows."

That statement makes it sound like Acura will take the tweener route with the TLX and ILX, which wouldn't be a bad idea. The models could at least share a platform, engines, etc without having to resort to scavenging from the mainstream line of Honda except for a the base 2.0T. Since they didn't shy away from the notion of having a 122" wheelbase model when they previewed the "Precision Concept", I could see a model replacing the RLX close to those dimensions in the future.



The Acura sedan platform is modular so it should be able to underpin the ILX, TLX and RLX. In terms of actual size, I think they’ll pretty much the same actual length with an increase in the wheelbase.

Archknight77
Profile for Archknight77
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-30-2019 20:19
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Civicb18 wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
"Acura will deliver a redesigned TLX midsize sedan this year, followed by a new ILX compact sedan and new-generation MDX midsize crossover in the year that follows."

That statement makes it sound like Acura will take the tweener route with the TLX and ILX, which wouldn't be a bad idea. The models could at least share a platform, engines, etc without having to resort to scavenging from the mainstream line of Honda except for a the base 2.0T. Since they didn't shy away from the notion of having a 122" wheelbase model when they previewed the "Precision Concept", I could see a model replacing the RLX close to those dimensions in the future.



The Acura sedan platform is modular so it should be able to underpin the ILX, TLX and RLX. In terms of actual size, I think they’ll pretty much the same actual length with an increase in the wheelbase.



Definitely a step in the right direction with an Acura exclusive platform. They just need to start releasing teasers and new product as quickly as possible to generate some hype for the brand.

CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2019 07:58
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Archknight77 wrote:
Civicb18 wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
"Acura will deliver a redesigned TLX midsize sedan this year, followed by a new ILX compact sedan and new-generation MDX midsize crossover in the year that follows."

That statement makes it sound like Acura will take the tweener route with the TLX and ILX, which wouldn't be a bad idea. The models could at least share a platform, engines, etc without having to resort to scavenging from the mainstream line of Honda except for a the base 2.0T. Since they didn't shy away from the notion of having a 122" wheelbase model when they previewed the "Precision Concept", I could see a model replacing the RLX close to those dimensions in the future.



The Acura sedan platform is modular so it should be able to underpin the ILX, TLX and RLX. In terms of actual size, I think they’ll pretty much the same actual length with an increase in the wheelbase.



Definitely a step in the right direction with an Acura exclusive platform. They just need to start releasing teasers and new product as quickly as possible to generate some hype for the brand.



It’s crucial that Acura deliver new sedans that get it right and do so in a timely manner. The most important thing is getting it right. Not quite delivering in order to bring a product out a few months earlier would be a big mistake. It’s not just about making a good impression with the automotive press and impressing consumers on a test drive. You also want to deliver product that works properly over the long haul. If you make something that initially impresses yet doesn’t work properly in the tradition of past Honda/Acura products, that’s a fail.

One big plus of structuring Acura to use two platforms (one SUV and one sedan/coupe) to build out a broad range of product is that you can focus on refining what goes into all that product with each model that emerges. It means all the models are elevated as you get experience building off those two platforms. Refine elements for one model and it means refinements for everything else sharing that technology.

In the past Acura’s reliability had been derived, to an extent, from drawing from product already evolved for Honda-branded pieces. That still applies to an extent but for the sake of brand image, Honda has to be perceived to be putting some daylight between its Honda and Acura offerings. In addition, technology deemed too expensive to go into Honda-branded models could be a fit for Acura models. By sharing that technology between multiple Acura models, economies of scale kick in. Sure using a platform developed for a Honda product lowers cost but if you want to imbue Acura models with a little something extra in a cost-effective manner, the best approach is to apply that tech to the most models possible. If the ILX shares a platform and bits and pieces with the TLX, then the cost of doing the TLX right is lower.

If we get a new TLX in a few months followed by ILX and RLX models derived from it, in addition to a couple of SUVs spun off the current RDX, it would be a successful approach. That’s assuming, of course, that the resulting models would be competitive. The RDX is certainly doing well, so chances are they would be.

Acura should have done this a long, long time ago. Still, here’s hoping they’re heading that way now.







Archknight77
Profile for Archknight77
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2019 08:11
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CarmB wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
Civicb18 wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
"Acura will deliver a redesigned TLX midsize sedan this year, followed by a new ILX compact sedan and new-generation MDX midsize crossover in the year that follows."

That statement makes it sound like Acura will take the tweener route with the TLX and ILX, which wouldn't be a bad idea. The models could at least share a platform, engines, etc without having to resort to scavenging from the mainstream line of Honda except for a the base 2.0T. Since they didn't shy away from the notion of having a 122" wheelbase model when they previewed the "Precision Concept", I could see a model replacing the RLX close to those dimensions in the future.



The Acura sedan platform is modular so it should be able to underpin the ILX, TLX and RLX. In terms of actual size, I think they’ll pretty much the same actual length with an increase in the wheelbase.



Definitely a step in the right direction with an Acura exclusive platform. They just need to start releasing teasers and new product as quickly as possible to generate some hype for the brand.



It’s crucial that Acura deliver new sedans that get it right and do so in a timely manner. The most important thing is getting it right. Not quite delivering in order to bring a product out a few months earlier would be a big mistake. It’s not just about making a good impression with the automotive press and impressing consumers on a test drive. You also want to deliver product that works properly over the long haul. If you make something that initially impresses yet doesn’t work properly in the tradition of past Honda/Acura products, that’s a fail.

One big plus of structuring Acura to use two platforms (one SUV and one sedan/coupe) to build out a broad range of product is that you can focus on refining what goes into all that product with each model that emerges. It means all the models are elevated as you get experience building off those two platforms. Refine elements for one model and it means refinements for everything else sharing that technology.

In the past Acura’s reliability had been derived, to an extent, from drawing from product already evolved for Honda-branded pieces. That still applies to an extent but for the sake of brand image, Honda has to be perceived to be putting some daylight between its Honda and Acura offerings. In addition, technology deemed too expensive to go into Honda-branded models could be a fit for Acura models. By sharing that technology between multiple Acura models, economies of scale kick in. Sure using a platform developed for a Honda product lowers cost but if you want to imbue Acura models with a little something extra in a cost-effective manner, the best approach is to apply that tech to the most models possible. If the ILX shares a platform and bits and pieces with the TLX, then the cost of doing the TLX right is lower.

If we get a new TLX in a few months followed by ILX and RLX models derived from it, in addition to a couple of SUVs spun off the current RDX, it would be a successful approach. That’s assuming, of course, that the resulting models would be competitive. The RDX is certainly doing well, so chances are they would be.

Acura should have done this a long, long time ago. Still, here’s hoping they’re heading that way now.









+1 Well said Carm, I concur.

Vxtec
Profile for Vxtec
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2019 08:52
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Archknight77 wrote:
CarmB wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
Civicb18 wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
"Acura will deliver a redesigned TLX midsize sedan this year, followed by a new ILX compact sedan and new-generation MDX midsize crossover in the year that follows."

That statement makes it sound like Acura will take the tweener route with the TLX and ILX, which wouldn't be a bad idea. The models could at least share a platform, engines, etc without having to resort to scavenging from the mainstream line of Honda except for a the base 2.0T. Since they didn't shy away from the notion of having a 122" wheelbase model when they previewed the "Precision Concept", I could see a model replacing the RLX close to those dimensions in the future.



The Acura sedan platform is modular so it should be able to underpin the ILX, TLX and RLX. In terms of actual size, I think they’ll pretty much the same actual length with an increase in the wheelbase.



Definitely a step in the right direction with an Acura exclusive platform. They just need to start releasing teasers and new product as quickly as possible to generate some hype for the brand.



It’s crucial that Acura deliver new sedans that get it right and do so in a timely manner. The most important thing is getting it right. Not quite delivering in order to bring a product out a few months earlier would be a big mistake. It’s not just about making a good impression with the automotive press and impressing consumers on a test drive. You also want to deliver product that works properly over the long haul. If you make something that initially impresses yet doesn’t work properly in the tradition of past Honda/Acura products, that’s a fail.

One big plus of structuring Acura to use two platforms (one SUV and one sedan/coupe) to build out a broad range of product is that you can focus on refining what goes into all that product with each model that emerges. It means all the models are elevated as you get experience building off those two platforms. Refine elements for one model and it means refinements for everything else sharing that technology.

In the past Acura’s reliability had been derived, to an extent, from drawing from product already evolved for Honda-branded pieces. That still applies to an extent but for the sake of brand image, Honda has to be perceived to be putting some daylight between its Honda and Acura offerings. In addition, technology deemed too expensive to go into Honda-branded models could be a fit for Acura models. By sharing that technology between multiple Acura models, economies of scale kick in. Sure using a platform developed for a Honda product lowers cost but if you want to imbue Acura models with a little something extra in a cost-effective manner, the best approach is to apply that tech to the most models possible. If the ILX shares a platform and bits and pieces with the TLX, then the cost of doing the TLX right is lower.

If we get a new TLX in a few months followed by ILX and RLX models derived from it, in addition to a couple of SUVs spun off the current RDX, it would be a successful approach. That’s assuming, of course, that the resulting models would be competitive. The RDX is certainly doing well, so chances are they would be.

Acura should have done this a long, long time ago. Still, here’s hoping they’re heading that way now.









+1 Well said Carm, I concur.



+1 too!

Spot on CarmB.

However, if this is not finally achieved then, personally (although it will upset a lot of Acura aficionados/fans) …

pull the pin on the whole Acura project and have Honda step-up and tackle broader markets themselves, including the Premium markets, with their new, improved and shared platforms.

… I can already hear the rumblings of revulsions at this ghastly thought... although, I repeat, either Acura, in a fair way, achieves it or they get out! Tough it may seem (currently and for a while), but unfortunately if it goes that way... then eventually people will just have to get over it!


CarmB
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2019 10:03
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It’s reasonable to argue that either Acura embark on a more distinct path, hence shaking off the Honda+ label or the brand is phased out. If it were phased out, that would damage parent Honda’s reputation, so fixing Acura rather than giving up on it, is the logical way to go.

I think Acura can still be saved and Honda has a lot to gain from saving it.

Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2019 10:08
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smArt wrote:
The TLX will be defined by it's quality and performance more than anything else. I think you may be way too focused on the idea of compact and midsize. Look at the TLX, which is currently midsize, and the C class. They don't look much different in size. Now there is a major difference in interior QUALITY. Acura needs to address this with the next gen.

Btw, getting rid of the ILX to make the TLX a compact would still mean they'd need a subcompact ILX. The correct idea of the ILX is to be an entry level Acura that is smaller and more affordable than the TLX but more premium than a mainstream Honda. They've got to get the premium part right.



I don't disagree that I'm too focused on one specific thing.

However the RDX shows us that Acura will almost certainly make very big strides with the interior quality from a materials and technology standpoint so I worry about that less.

But I do worry about Acura making structural mistakes with their lineup - because they've done it a hundred times already and all the rumor and talk has been that they'll do it again.

And a well-executed TLX midsize will still sell well and be well received - I just think they are making long-term mistakes and aren't being forward thinking enough about what will sell over a 10-15 year period.

And the current talk about the ILX not having SHAWD and being sort of a cost-cut approach...I mean how many times can they make THAT mistake?

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2019 10:45
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Civicb18 wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
"Acura will deliver a redesigned TLX midsize sedan this year, followed by a new ILX compact sedan and new-generation MDX midsize crossover in the year that follows."

That statement makes it sound like Acura will take the tweener route with the TLX and ILX, which wouldn't be a bad idea. The models could at least share a platform, engines, etc without having to resort to scavenging from the mainstream line of Honda except for a the base 2.0T. Since they didn't shy away from the notion of having a 122" wheelbase model when they previewed the "Precision Concept", I could see a model replacing the RLX close to those dimensions in the future.



The Acura sedan platform is modular so it should be able to underpin the ILX, TLX and RLX. In terms of actual size, I think they’ll pretty much the same actual length with an increase in the wheelbase.



It is still a family sedan FWD trans, compromised platform and basically a modified Accord/civic platform using mostly Honda engines. Nothing has changed, they are doing the same thing. If they base a model above the TLX on this compromised family sedan platform it is going to fail again, it is bad enough they will continue to base the TLX on another Accord platform. A RLX needs a Tier 1 premium platform, not another family sedan platform. ILX is needless, it will be another dud.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2019 10:58
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CarmB wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
Civicb18 wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
"Acura will deliver a redesigned TLX midsize sedan this year, followed by a new ILX compact sedan and new-generation MDX midsize crossover in the year that follows."

That statement makes it sound like Acura will take the tweener route with the TLX and ILX, which wouldn't be a bad idea. The models could at least share a platform, engines, etc without having to resort to scavenging from the mainstream line of Honda except for a the base 2.0T. Since they didn't shy away from the notion of having a 122" wheelbase model when they previewed the "Precision Concept", I could see a model replacing the RLX close to those dimensions in the future.



The Acura sedan platform is modular so it should be able to underpin the ILX, TLX and RLX. In terms of actual size, I think they’ll pretty much the same actual length with an increase in the wheelbase.



Definitely a step in the right direction with an Acura exclusive platform. They just need to start releasing teasers and new product as quickly as possible to generate some hype for the brand.



It’s crucial that Acura deliver new sedans that get it right and do so in a timely manner. The most important thing is getting it right. Not quite delivering in order to bring a product out a few months earlier would be a big mistake. It’s not just about making a good impression with the automotive press and impressing consumers on a test drive. You also want to deliver product that works properly over the long haul. If you make something that initially impresses yet doesn’t work properly in the tradition of past Honda/Acura products, that’s a fail.

One big plus of structuring Acura to use two platforms (one SUV and one sedan/coupe) to build out a broad range of product is that you can focus on refining what goes into all that product with each model that emerges. It means all the models are elevated as you get experience building off those two platforms. Refine elements for one model and it means refinements for everything else sharing that technology.

In the past Acura’s reliability had been derived, to an extent, from drawing from product already evolved for Honda-branded pieces. That still applies to an extent but for the sake of brand image, Honda has to be perceived to be putting some daylight between its Honda and Acura offerings. In addition, technology deemed too expensive to go into Honda-branded models could be a fit for Acura models. By sharing that technology between multiple Acura models, economies of scale kick in. Sure using a platform developed for a Honda product lowers cost but if you want to imbue Acura models with a little something extra in a cost-effective manner, the best approach is to apply that tech to the most models possible. If the ILX shares a platform and bits and pieces with the TLX, then the cost of doing the TLX right is lower.

If we get a new TLX in a few months followed by ILX and RLX models derived from it, in addition to a couple of SUVs spun off the current RDX, it would be a successful approach. That’s assuming, of course, that the resulting models would be competitive. The RDX is certainly doing well, so chances are they would be.

Acura should have done this a long, long time ago. Still, here’s hoping they’re heading that way now.








It won't be a successful approach, it will be doing the same thing they have been doing with Acura. Honda+, cost cut Smart luxury, whatever you want to call it. Basing all your products on one or two FWD trans platforms that are shared with Honda's is what they have been doing, nobody buys that modifying a compromised family sedan or econo CUV platform is going to magically make it competitive with long RWD competitors, it simply won't.

They have been throwing everything at the same basic compromised FWD family sedan platforms to try to make them less compromised, Shawd, paws, e shawd, awd, etc and it just does not really work. They should have learned that by now. From what I am reading and hearing we are going to get the same basic Honda+ smart luxury cars we have been getting, just the interiors won't be as bad or improved, however you want to say it. RDX is a step up from a already great selling vehicle, it was hard to screw it up and it does not suddenly mean Acura's problems are solved, the interior is still not up to premium level standard for more expensive sedans, it is slower then most of its competitors and slower and less refined then the last 6 cylinder model. Many people don't see that as much progress and in many ways stepping back.

I really hope they have something better and more competitive in the pipeline then just new version of the same FWD trans platformed cars just with nicer/RDX interiors and that rather lacklaster Honda turbo 4. No way that is going to cut it against the upper end of TLX competitors or anything above a TLX. Sticking a turbo 6 in the TLX and pricing at or over 50K is not going to work either.

CarmB
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2019 12:33
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lexusgs wrote:
Civicb18 wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
"Acura will deliver a redesigned TLX midsize sedan this year, followed by a new ILX compact sedan and new-generation MDX midsize crossover in the year that follows."

That statement makes it sound like Acura will take the tweener route with the TLX and ILX, which wouldn't be a bad idea. The models could at least share a platform, engines, etc without having to resort to scavenging from the mainstream line of Honda except for a the base 2.0T. Since they didn't shy away from the notion of having a 122" wheelbase model when they previewed the "Precision Concept", I could see a model replacing the RLX close to those dimensions in the future.



The Acura sedan platform is modular so it should be able to underpin the ILX, TLX and RLX. In terms of actual size, I think they’ll pretty much the same actual length with an increase in the wheelbase.



It is still a family sedan FWD trans, compromised platform and basically a modified Accord/civic platform using mostly Honda engines. Nothing has changed, they are doing the same thing. If they base a model above the TLX on this compromised family sedan platform it is going to fail again, it is bad enough they will continue to base the TLX on another Accord platform. A RLX needs a Tier 1 premium platform, not another family sedan platform. ILX is needless, it will be another dud.



What makes you think BMW, Audi, or Mercedes engines, in their more affordable offerings, are superior per se to a Honda engine?

I would rather a Honda engine, frankly, because Honda has a history of doing engines rather well, including excellent long-term reliability.

You might think that it’s a negative that Acuras are basically Honda-powered but I’m guessing you would find a lot of people who would regard that as a strength.

Design
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2019 12:48
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lexusgs wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
smArt wrote:
Why do people want the ILX gone so bad. The potential for this model is strong, and it would be a mistake to get rid of it.
A Civic sized Acura that's more premium than an Accord and comes with a 2.0T and sh-awd sounds like a good thing for the Acura brand, plus there is no Honda like it. Acura needs more cars and the ILX has it's place.

Merecedes has both an A class and a CLA in this class. BMW has the 2 series and is coming out with a fwd 2 series gran coupe. Audi has the A3... This class of vehicle is the most likely place for Acura to have a best in class product.

These entry luxury compacts are getting more premium.
2020 Mercedes CLA




People who don't understand that segment of buyers are the only ones hating on the ILX. Acura just missed the mark on making a truly premium offering for an entry level model. Apparently there must be a market for it or else MB wouldn't have 2 models in the segment, BMW wouldn't be bringing the 2 series to the US in FWD guise, GM wouldn't be looking at a RWD segment killer, and Audi would have stepped away from the market completely. Instead they kept improving the models after seeing how successful they can be. The ILX should be the best combination of Civic's size and handling with the luxury of Accord's Touring model. With this reboot they have a chance at being class leaders, they just can't keep listening to people who want them to be a "value" brand.



We actually are the ones who understand it and understand Acura.

First of all the ILX is sub entry level at most, it is not entry level in any way. The ILX has failed because it is sub entry level, it is based on a civic, has a civic motor, shares way too much. When people step up to a luxury brand they are generally looking for a car/experience that is a good deal nicer then your avg car, the ILX did not offer that. The ILX offered a experience that was a little nicer then a civic at the time, a economy car, that is about it. If someone wants a nicer car then a civic they can get a Accord which offers much more room, more features, nicer looking, and even a great 6 cylinder at the time and likely pay less or a similar price, the ILX was just a little nicer then a civic and way under Acura's entry car, the TLX that had the same basic engine/setup as the ILX so the ILX offered nothing unique. The ILX stayed on the old platform while the civic got a better platform, more reason not to buy a ILX.

As long as the TLX has a 4 cylinder, it will be entry level enough for Acura, there is really no point in another smaller sedan based on the same non premium platform, same basic engine, just crappier. Since they share so much Acura has 2 bad choices for the ILX, one they have to make sure to make it is shitty enough to where it does not encroach on the TLX 4 cylinder, which they did with the current ILX hence the poor sales of the ILX or two if they really want to take it to Mercedes/Audi, which they won't, they never do, then they will have to make it much better which will ensure it encroaches on the 4 cyl TLX. That could make the TLX irrelevant which they don't want, first they would lose profits, second they would lower the value/prestige of the Acura brand even more having such a low end car starting to get the sales and stealing sales/attention from even their entry level car.

Acura is not going to make a car like the new Mercedes CLA, it is a fantasy to think they will, it won't look like it inside or out or be a nicer car, just like Acura won't make a car like the S class and it seems won't even bother with a premium RWD platform, they are stuck on Honda+ smart luxury.

Mercedes already has a very full lineup of very premium vehicles on premium platforms with premium engines, they don't need to go any higher or establish themselves in higher end areas, a CLA is a segment they can play in, especially because there is no mainstream brand that owns Mercedes selling cars like it. Mercedes success with higher end vehicles is one of the reasons the CLA has some mild success but even a CLA does not really pass for the full Mercedes experience which is why the C class handily outsells it, maybe the new one does but it is still not as nice as a C class. Acura desperately needs vehicles and credibility in the higher end segments, a ILX does not help them, only hurts them, it is just another vehicle that brings the image of Acura down, even if they put a lot more effort into it, it won't help Acura much because it is still just sub entry level, something they should be trying to get away from. Acura's lack of product or competitiveness in the higher end segments is why the ILX does not sell well despite being the cheapest Acura and being so similar to a really good selling vehicle. Same basic reason the Lexus CT did not sell, did not offer the real Lexus experience and people will just get a Prius instead or a IS if they want a Lexus car, even Lexus better success in higher segments could not help it, sub entry Infiniti's don't work either, buyers will just get a Nissan or Q50 if they really want a Infiniti.

Acura would be better served to offer something really sporty/unique below the TLX like a premium coupe/sleek hatch Audi tt competitor, something not so close to a Honda.



I largely agree with this. Though I think Acura will stick with the Global Civic/Accord chassis. The difference this time around is that it's an excellent starting point, and easy to configure to various lengths & widths. And Acura can still do a lot to distance the ILX from the Civic (namely the interior, powertrain and transmission).

That said, if Acura fails to offer its upper ILX trims with the 2.0T, I'd consider it largely DOA.

Vxtec
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2019 20:05
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CarmB wrote:
It’s reasonable to argue that either Acura embark on a more distinct path, hence shaking off the Honda+ label or the brand is phased out. If it were phased out, that would damage parent Honda’s reputation, so fixing Acura rather than giving up on it, is the logical way to go.

I think Acura can still be saved and Honda has a lot to gain from saving it.



Hopefully it will be saved - because then it means Acura is successful (with demand and supply) - namely, giving the market what it wants and desires!

However, if not - then (unfortunately) it should be the end of the road!

We will see - personally, I am giving Acura the next 5 - 10 (max) years.

Vtec_rally
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2019 23:30
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Honda will never discontinue the Acura brand. Nobody is going to buy a Honda RDX or MDX at the prices they sell at in North America.

At this point there has been too much investment in the brand and a rollout to other international markets. If every single car in the present model range was a failure then the case for cancelling the brand would make sense, but that is not the case. The RDX has had a successful launch and the existing MDX has a good level of brand equity. Hopefully, that bodes well for the revamped ILX, TLX and MDX when they launch. The NSX has garnered a good amount of positive press as well.

Vxtec
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2019 06:01
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Clarification:

When I said "I am giving Acura the next 5 - 10 (max) years" - I meant to sort itself out, otherwise their future beyond next decade is likely to be very grim.

CarPhreakD
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2019 09:37
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Vxtec wrote:
Clarification:

When I said "I am giving Acura the next 5 - 10 (max) years" - I meant to sort itself out, otherwise their future beyond next decade is likely to be very grim.



I'm pretty sure I said that back when the RLX debuted.

I don't think Honda can afford to kill the brand as the SUVs in particular carry some pretty good margins. But it's been limping along for over a decade and has basically zero brand equity. Acura could right the ship by applying the RDX treatment across the lineup, but I honestly don't really see this brand ever competing as a legitimate luxury automaker; the most we can hope for is a return to the glory days in its conception through mid-2000s when the cars punched above their weight class for value and performance.

Nick GravesX
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2019 09:42
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It's too well-established in NA to kill it. A 25% sales uplift due to the RDX has probably stopped them falling on their swards.

Dealers are less suicidal, according to AN's article.

The RoW however...monumental failure.

I think Honda Ascot might be a good name for an RDX...

superchg2
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2019 10:26
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CarPhreakD wrote:
Vxtec wrote:
Clarification:

When I said "I am giving Acura the next 5 - 10 (max) years" - I meant to sort itself out, otherwise their future beyond next decade is likely to be very grim.



I'm pretty sure I said that back when the RLX debuted.

I don't think Honda can afford to kill the brand as the SUVs in particular carry some pretty good margins. But it's been limping along for over a decade and has basically zero brand equity. Acura could right the ship by applying the RDX treatment across the lineup, but I honestly don't really see this brand ever competing as a legitimate luxury automaker; the most we can hope for is a return to the glory days in its conception through mid-2000s when the cars punched above their weight class for value and performance.


So, it would make sense to sure that the next MDX is done right, and can go to bat against Zee Germans!

123456speed
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2019 01:57
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Acura sedans have been a borefest since TL. 2018 is said to be the peak for sedan sales, it's all downhill. It's futile for Acura to spend too many resources on same old sedans. The 10G Accord is a more successful product design than any Acura sedan. I'm a coupe driver, no to trucks and SUVs. Acura is over. Electrification is the only thing that might wake up Acura sedans but they are already behind. Nobody cares about ILX, TLX, RLX. Leave Acura to trucks, add a 3rd brand for electrics and automation.
urbanglowcam
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2019 03:30
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123456speed wrote:
Acura sedans have been a borefest since TL. 2018 is said to be the peak for sedan sales, it's all downhill. It's futile for Acura to spend too many resources on same old sedans. The 10G Accord is a more successful product design than any Acura sedan. I'm a coupe driver, no to trucks and SUVs. Acura is over. Electrification is the only thing that might wake up Acura sedans but they are already behind. Nobody cares about ILX, TLX, RLX. Leave Acura to trucks, add a 3rd brand for electrics and automation.


From what I've seen with the RDX, bring on the new sedans! The TLX-S sounds really promising. From the educated guesses we can make, this one's going to get a nice boost in performance and styling. With sedan sales dropping though, I wouldn't be surprised if the ILX or RLX get canned though.

What I would REALLY like to see is a sports car, but there's no evidence of that happening anytime soon. Closest thing is Honda's EV sports concept. The new V6-T does make the mind wander though...

Nick GravesX
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2019 07:42
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Given that the company is still recovering from its lost decade of mismanagement, perhaps some patience is required. If all your big competitors have been making more money, they have more to invest...

The RDX is a sign that they can do it if they set about it properly. So if they maintain the momentum whilst stretching it into an MDX, it ought to be another success.

It'll take a bit of metal-bending to squash the plank into a competitive D-segment, but it's not impossible.

It may not be quite as perfectly-honed as a 340iX obviously, but if it is competitively-priced, more spacious and less troublesome there is still room for it. Just don't blow it on the styling/perceived quality!

Grace141
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Re: Future Acura models    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-02-2019 10:21
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No one ever suggests Honda just make Acura the best Acura it can be like it was back in the '80s and early '90s. Acura's success has always been as the Honda of sport-luxury brands. People bought the cars in decent numbers when they were smartly styled, great driving cars with solid reliability and some true Honda innovation which mattered to customers built in. Acura has been so focused on price the past ten years it's become nothing more than a discount house brand for customers Honda has believed want a luxury badge without paying a premium. That's silly. No one bought a Legend back in the day because it was a cheap luxury car, although it was inexpensive compared to Mercedes. The Legend was the best car Honda could produce at the time so people liked it because it was Honda showing how smart it could be.

Anyone here who hasn't spent some time with the modern MDX should do so and then compare what you find with the Civic and Accord. There are flashes of "smart" in our MDX which link directly back to the Legends and Integras such as how the door seals are made and located, how nicely the door hardware works, the thickness and pliability of the hood leading edge seal, the finish of the trim around the side windows and, inside, the more expensive nature of the appearance of the instrument gauge cluster, the nicer carpeting, the sophisticated functioning of the mid-row seats, and even how quiet the HVAC noise is when the fan is at a high setting.

The MDX is a $50k car so it should be nicely done but it's where we are in 2018. Our MDX in 2018 reminds me of where Acura was with the Legend in 1991. People are willing to pay good money for cars they like. I'd like to buy a smartly styled, engaging new Acura sedan like our Integra or the 1G TSX. I'll pay extra for all of the why-tech features I don't need if it means I also get the sophisticated Acura sedan I want to enjoy driving and even looking at in my garage. The TLX is a great driving sedan. I just wish the styling was less like a late '70s Datsun 610 sedan and more like a late '70s Alfetta sedan.


 
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