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Sasker
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German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-05-2019 16:19
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Sorry if this has already been discussed:

https://www.dw.com/en/european-commission-finds-german-automakers-illegally-colluded-on-emissions-technology/a-48218578

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-05-2019 18:12
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Heh, maybe I can sue the Germans for not giving us the most power possible from their turbo engines. I know the Mercedes 4.0TT V8 can make lots more than what they sell it with it. They are conspiring with the other makers to keep power levels at a more reasonable level. Collusion!!!!

(for those that didn't get it, this is sarcasm, the EU's anti-business bent is surpassed only by its internal protectionism - bunch of unelected bureaucrats telling people how to live their lives, may they all find tar, feathers and rails waiting outside their doors someday)

SC

KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-06-2019 17:16
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Meeting of German car makers


I'm not buying their stuff, and I am German. So why should you?

And for our American friends, here are the facts. EU comission has their candidates nominated by each member countries government and confirmed by the european parliament. I can think of even less unelected groups in US policy who are driving an anti-world policy and want to spread "american freedom" to every country where they find natural resources. Therefore i prefer our non-nuclear-armed buerocrats over yours.

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-06-2019 17:58
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notyper wrote:


Heh, maybe I can sue the Germans for not giving us the most power possible from their turbo engines. I know the Mercedes 4.0TT V8 can make lots more than what they sell it with it. They are conspiring with the other makers to keep power levels at a more reasonable level. Collusion!!!!

(for those that didn't get it, this is sarcasm, the EU's anti-business bent is surpassed only by its internal protectionism - bunch of unelected bureaucrats telling people how to live their lives, may they all find tar, feathers and rails waiting outside their doors someday)

SC


Not so sure....

http://www.democraticaudit.com/2016/06/23/is-the-eu-really-run-by-unelected-bureaucrats/

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-07-2019 15:15
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Mikgtir wrote:
notyper wrote:


Heh, maybe I can sue the Germans for not giving us the most power possible from their turbo engines. I know the Mercedes 4.0TT V8 can make lots more than what they sell it with it. They are conspiring with the other makers to keep power levels at a more reasonable level. Collusion!!!!

(for those that didn't get it, this is sarcasm, the EU's anti-business bent is surpassed only by its internal protectionism - bunch of unelected bureaucrats telling people how to live their lives, may they all find tar, feathers and rails waiting outside their doors someday)

SC


Not so sure....

http://www.democraticaudit.com/2016/06/23/is-the-eu-really-run-by-unelected-bureaucrats/



Lol, the first paragraph of that article, just so we're clear:

This claim mainly refers to the EU Commission: the EU’s executive body. It is true that the Commission President and the individual Commissioners are not directly elected by the peoples of Europe. So, in that sense, we cannot “throw the scoundrels out”. It is also true that under the provisions of the EU treaty, the Commission has the sole right to propose EU legislation, which, if passed, is then binding on all the EU member states and the citizens of these member states.


The rest of the lengthy piece attempts to minimize the significance of this first admission by talking about limits on the power and legislative mechanics. But it does nothing to refute the fact that the EU is run by unelected bureaucrats.

I suppose we could go further into just who that site is sponsored by, but I think the article speaks for itself without having to malign the author by his associations outside his writing. We all know scoundrels (but most don't take their money).

SC

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-07-2019 15:21
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KaizenDo wrote:
I'm not buying their stuff, and I am German. So why should you?

And for our American friends, here are the facts. EU comission has their candidates nominated by each member countries government and confirmed by the european parliament. I can think of even less unelected groups in US policy who are driving an anti-world policy and want to spread "american freedom" to every country where they find natural resources. Therefore i prefer our non-nuclear-armed buerocrats over yours.



Could you have posted a less coherent mishmash of garbage? I think not.

You didn't elect your EU commissioner or president. They are bureaucrats. Hence, unelected bureaucrats. Hell, you didn't even get to nominate the candidates for those positions.

The rest of your post is pointless dissembling. Run, find the sheepdog, before the wolf finds _you_.

SC

BG
Profile for BG
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2019 07:56
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notyper wrote:


Heh, maybe I can sue the Germans for not giving us the most power possible from their turbo engines. I know the Mercedes 4.0TT V8 can make lots more than what they sell it with it. They are conspiring with the other makers to keep power levels at a more reasonable level. Collusion!!!!

(for those that didn't get it, this is sarcasm, the EU's anti-business bent is surpassed only by its internal protectionism - bunch of unelected bureaucrats telling people how to live their lives, may they all find tar, feathers and rails waiting outside their doors someday)

SC



The issue here is that better tech was available but they deliberately conspired to hold it back to gain further along down the road.

Most engines will produce more power than manufactured but will the pass emissions from a regulatory stand point.... NO....

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2019 09:10
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To be clear, the whistleblower for this collusion (yes, I know that word triggers some folks) was Mercedes. Basically an attempt to come clean. All the German automakers were also raided I think, two years ago.

I am also not sure if we can expect the automakers to "fight back", as Mercedes already claimed that they don't expect to be fined as a "chief witness" and BMW is already setting aside a billion dollars.

If the allegations are true, then this is no different from other attempts to defraud the public and other businesses, like the mass Japanese price fixing scandal.

Look, I understand that people are distrustful of governments, especially instances of "unelected officials". And yeah, I think that's a legitimate concern. But the basic job of any government is to protect its citizens, and 195% of the time I would much rather they side with their citizens (i.e. the consumers) rather than see them fucked over by large multinational corporations.

Why even defend the German automakers? They foisted this diseasal crap on us since 2008 and VW has actively and knowingly defrauded the US. If there's evidence of collusion in this regard for emissions technology, they should be punished accordingly. You can't call it "antibusiness" when said business is breaking established laws.

This is far from over anyways, because the other mainstay of first world countries, the justice system, needs to work through this.


notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2019 02:00
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CarPhreakD wrote:
To be clear, the whistleblower for this collusion (yes, I know that word triggers some folks) was Mercedes. Basically an attempt to come clean. All the German automakers were also raided I think, two years ago.

I am also not sure if we can expect the automakers to "fight back", as Mercedes already claimed that they don't expect to be fined as a "chief witness" and BMW is already setting aside a billion dollars.

If the allegations are true, then this is no different from other attempts to defraud the public and other businesses, like the mass Japanese price fixing scandal.

Look, I understand that people are distrustful of governments, especially instances of "unelected officials". And yeah, I think that's a legitimate concern. But the basic job of any government is to protect its citizens, and 195% of the time I would much rather they side with their citizens (i.e. the consumers) rather than see them fucked over by large multinational corporations.

Why even defend the German automakers? They foisted this diseasal crap on us since 2008 and VW has actively and knowingly defrauded the US. If there's evidence of collusion in this regard for emissions technology, they should be punished accordingly. You can't call it "antibusiness" when said business is breaking established laws.

This is far from over anyways, because the other mainstay of first world countries, the justice system, needs to work through this.




This is nothing like price fixing. It's holding a technology in reserve to provide the ability to meet new regulatory bullshit from government agencies that don't know what they're doing.

If we require everyone to implement their latest technologies as soon as they are available the free market is dead.

And the whole diesel/particulate issue was foisted on us first by European governments who decided to pick a winner in diesel while forcing ever more restrictive emissions requirements on car makers. Yes, VW broke the law and they're getting punished, but I blame VW about as much as I blame banks for the financial crisis. The only way the banks could loan money was to comply with government regulations that required loaning to people who shouldn't have been able to qualify for a fucking library card let alone a home mortgage, and then the feds bought those loans.

SC

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2019 02:02
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BG wrote:
notyper wrote:


Heh, maybe I can sue the Germans for not giving us the most power possible from their turbo engines. I know the Mercedes 4.0TT V8 can make lots more than what they sell it with it. They are conspiring with the other makers to keep power levels at a more reasonable level. Collusion!!!!

(for those that didn't get it, this is sarcasm, the EU's anti-business bent is surpassed only by its internal protectionism - bunch of unelected bureaucrats telling people how to live their lives, may they all find tar, feathers and rails waiting outside their doors someday)

SC



The issue here is that better tech was available but they deliberately conspired to hold it back to gain further along down the road.

Most engines will produce more power than manufactured but will the pass emissions from a regulatory stand point.... NO....



Bzzt. The MB 4.0TT produces between 500 and 650 hp as is, so we already know they're holding power back in various apps. And emissions testing doesn't measure much of anything at full throttle, which is where the additional power can be made. Just making a point, which really has nothing to do with the actual purpose of this post.

SC

KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2019 13:37
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notyper wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
I'm not buying their stuff, and I am German. So why should you?

And for our American friends, here are the facts. EU comission has their candidates nominated by each member countries government and confirmed by the european parliament. I can think of even less unelected groups in US policy who are driving an anti-world policy and want to spread "american freedom" to every country where they find natural resources. Therefore i prefer our non-nuclear-armed buerocrats over yours.



Could you have posted a less coherent mishmash of garbage? I think not.

You didn't elect your EU commissioner or president. They are bureaucrats. Hence, unelected bureaucrats. Hell, you didn't even get to nominate the candidates for those positions.

The rest of your post is pointless dissembling. Run, find the sheepdog, before the wolf finds _you_.

SC



Yeah, i could have posted something like you, for example.

I could have posted about a country that i have no clue of, but because of feeling american I can throw in my views of what's socialistic and call people names.

Nope, I ddidn't elect my EU comissioner, but I elected the national government which then picked the comissioner. Do you in exchange elect your US president, or does the electoral college do that? Do you even elect your electors are are they nominated by some background mechanism? Big surprise, you have unelected buerocrats in your own country as well.

And while I'm at it, what you're also missing out: in Europe it's not socialism that car makers have to apply to certain regulations. In Europe we call this laws - you have them too in the US.

The rest of your post is the usual "I am thy mod and thou shalleth be silent". I'm neither impressed nor afraid of that wolf you want to be. It just shows that you're out of arguments and swing the banhammer.

SZ

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2019 16:28
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I don't ban you because you're a joke that provides endless amusement. You're a punching bag that keeps asking for more. You've been ban-worthy on multiple occasions, so ask yourself why you're still allowed here.....

As for the rest, electors are chosen before the election. We know who they are before we ever enter the voting booth. They pledge to vote as the people who choose them vote. Could they vote otherwise? Yes, but there are procedures in place should they do so, and they wouldn't live long if they did (and I mean that literally). Hence, our president is elected by the people. Not the majority of people, but by our republican (because this is a republic, not a democracy) apportionment of voting.

As for you being a sheep, I'm not your wolf there lambchop, your leftist, statist, telling you how to live government is the wolves den filled with all those unelected wolves who will eat you if you don't bow to their wishes. Ever wonder why in the EU you keep voting on the same thing till the bureaucrats in Brussels get what they want, then the voting stops?

Enjoy life lambchop. Most of the EU is too far gone. We in the US are on the same path, but we have a better chance of stopping the infection.

SC

KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2019 18:30
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Oh wow, please tell me more. You're so exciting to listen to.

By the way, since I've unfortunately mistook your place with an actual Honda forum - when do you guys will start this white cape wearing, burning wodden crosses and brother marrying sister thing?

:o)

Mr. Taggart
Profile for Mr. Taggart
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2019 18:48
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Aren't you the same guy who came to an auto forum when your girlfriend dumped you?

What nations do we rob of natural resources? Last time I looked we lead the world in natural gas and oil reserves and now are a net exporter of oil.

Didn't your European ancestors have a huge habit of cousins marrying cousins?

And the cross burners were Democrats and I would never accuse Sean of that.

And your German ancestors seemed to be pretty happy when we kicked Hitlers ass and freed half of your country from communism.

Enjoy becoming a nation ruled by Sharia law soon. And remember in Gernany it is not rape if committed by those from the Muddle East, they are just playing arounds.


KaizenDo wrote:
Oh wow, please tell me more. You're so exciting to listen to.

By the way, since I've unfortunately mistook your place with an actual Honda forum - when do you guys will start this white cape wearing, burning wodden crosses and brother marrying sister thing?

:o)



superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2019 20:23
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KaizenDo wrote:
Oh wow, please tell me more. You're so exciting to listen to.

By the way, since I've unfortunately mistook your place with an actual Honda forum - when do you guys will start this white cape wearing, burning wodden crosses and brother marrying sister thing?

:o)


It sounds like you are going into a melt down, KaizenDo.

And as Shawn said, it is fun to watch!

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2019 01:04
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Mr. Taggart wrote:
Aren't you the same guy who came to an auto forum when your girlfriend dumped you?

What nations do we rob of natural resources? Last time I looked we lead the world in natural gas and oil reserves and now are a net exporter of oil.

Didn't your European ancestors have a huge habit of cousins marrying cousins?

And the cross burners were Democrats and I would never accuse Sean of that.

And your German ancestors seemed to be pretty happy when we kicked Hitlers ass and freed half of your country from communism.

Enjoy becoming a nation ruled by Sharia law soon. And remember in Gernany it is not rape if committed by those from the Muddle East, they are just playing arounds.


KaizenDo wrote:
Oh wow, please tell me more. You're so exciting to listen to.

By the way, since I've unfortunately mistook your place with an actual Honda forum - when do you guys will start this white cape wearing, burning wodden crosses and brother marrying sister thing?

:o)





Honestly, while KaizenDo is very annoying, at least he doesn't say Alex Jones level untruths and insanity. If you're going to ban him because he dared to argue back, I feel you should consider whether you want posts like the one above on TOV as well.

Mr. Taggart
Profile for Mr. Taggart
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2019 03:56
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Please explain the untruths and insanity.


Did I offend your snowflake like sensibilities?

Fact 1
Kaizen came here crying when he broke up. Was that Honda related, or were his two Facebook friends busy at the time and didnt respond to the change in his relationship status??

Fact 2 The US is a net exporter of oil and has the estimated largest reserves for oil and natural gas. A follow up would be to ask what counties did we seek oil reserves from, as it was claimed that the US invaded Iraq for oil. Kaizen make a direct claim related to this.

Fact 3 The European Monarchy, particularly the Haspburgs were riddled with inbreeding and the genetic problems associated with the practice. Maybe you've never heard of the Haspburg jaw?? Southern inbreeding is a caricature while royal inbreeding is not.

Fact 4 Had it not been for the US entry into WWII, starting with the lend lease program, and then winning the cold war, most of Germany might be speaking Russian. Maybe you don't remember the famous line, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."
Kaizen is quick to criticize the US and the export of its values but maybe should slow his roll.

Fact 5 The Klu Klux Klan was comprised of Southen Denocrats, who were against civil rights. It was the Party of Lincoln, Republicans, who pushed for civil rights. I really don't think Shawn's politics would align with them. Maybe your a believer in the drivel that the is a 'white nationalist' movement? And as a follow up you could ask Kaizen if you want to go pinning things on a nation about Germany's little final solution problem in WWII.

Fact 6 There are numerous and many well publicized German rapes and sexual assaults by Middle Eastern immigrants, which the Merkel Administration has tried to cover up and or explain away as the immigrants just doing what is part of thier culture. Maybe you forgot the New Years incident several years ago. Further, Germany has failed to ban child marriage so as not to upset said immigrants as child marriage is allowed per sharia law. What about those arrested for trying to enforce Sharia law in Germany and other Sharia patrols in the country?

Kaizen went off the rails along time ago in this thread and his white hood cross burning inbred crap pushed the bullshit button.

That would be akin to me telling you I cant beleive a word you say because only whores and hockey players come from Canada and I don't remember you lacing up your skates.




Mr. Taggart
Profile for Mr. Taggart
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2019 03:57
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Please explain the untruths and insanity.


Did I offend your snowflake like sensibilities?

Fact 1
Kaizen came here crying when he broke up. Was that Honda related, or were his two Facebook friends busy at the time and didnt respond to the change in his relationship status??

Fact 2 The US is a net exporter of oil and has the estimated largest reserves for oil and natural gas. A follow up would be to ask what counties did we seek oil reserves from, as it was claimed that the US invaded Iraq for oil. Kaizen make a direct claim related to this.

Fact 3 The European Monarchy, particularly the Haspburgs were riddled with inbreeding and the genetic problems associated with the practice. Maybe you've never heard of the Haspburg jaw?? Southern inbreeding is a caricature while royal inbreeding is not.

Fact 4 Had it not been for the US entry into WWII, starting with the lend lease program, and then winning the cold war, most of Germany might be speaking Russian. Maybe you don't remember the famous line, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."
Kaizen is quick to criticize the US and the export of its values but maybe should slow his roll.

Fact 5 The Klu Klux Klan was comprised of Southen Denocrats, who were against civil rights. It was the Party of Lincoln, Republicans, who pushed for civil rights. I really don't think Shawn's politics would align with them. Maybe your a believer in the drivel that the is a 'white nationalist' movement? And as a follow up you could ask Kaizen if you want to go pinning things on a nation about Germany's little final solution problem in WWII.

Fact 6 There are numerous and many well publicized German rapes and sexual assaults by Middle Eastern immigrants, which the Merkel Administration has tried to cover up and or explain away as the immigrants just doing what is part of thier culture. Maybe you forgot the New Years incident several years ago. Further, Germany has failed to ban child marriage so as not to upset said immigrants as child marriage is allowed per sharia law. What about those arrested for trying to enforce Sharia law in Germany and other Sharia patrols in the country?

Kaizen went off the rails along time ago in this thread and his white hood cross burning inbred crap pushed the bullshit button.

That would be akin to me telling you I cant beleive a word you say because only whores and hockey players come from Canada and I don't remember you lacing up your skates.





Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2019 09:38
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KaizenDo wrote:

And for our American friends, here are the facts. EU comission has their candidates nominated by each member countries government and confirmed by the european parliament. I can think of even less unelected groups in US policy who are driving an anti-world policy and want to spread "american freedom" to every country where they find natural resources. Therefore i prefer our non-nuclear-armed buerocrats over yours.


Some random thoughts.

- Our Electoral College process more or less dates back to a time when sending the results of a Presidential election from, say, Georgia to the nation's capital meant people hand carrying written documents and travelling by horse. The US is sill a collection of independent states represented by a common government and it's primarily our presidential representative that each of us elects at the national level. Everything else is decided at the state level. Well, except for the work of the CARB folks. Bah humbug.

- I imagine many young Germans don't care much for the US and us Americans and that's okay, they don't have to. If the German people should decide to break diplomatic ties with the US the first thing they could do is stop buying their military armaments from us and let us bring our kids home. We'll call it Americaexit. Maybe I'll get some of my income tax dollars returned to me. Until then, Germans should appreciate our President Truman for his signing the "Marshall Plan" bill into law.

- Many Americans think poorly of the French. It was good for a laugh when a comedian spoke of "Freedom Fries" and such but were it not for the French there wouldn't be a United States of America. We needed help badly in our struggle with the British and the French arrived ready to kick some serious butt, mainly because wherever someone was struggling with the British their interest was piqued. Time wounds all heals so many of us don't know much of our nation's history.

- There are people of limited brain power everywhere and not just in the US nor just in the southern states of the US.

- Back to cars, all of it is a shame because the Blu-Tec E-class a co-worker bought several years ago was a great car. A friend of the family had two of the TDI Q7's and loved the things. She's driving a 3.0T TFSI Q7 now.

- Does everyone remember the stick Honda got for claiming they would bring a diesel TSX to the US market only to later claim they couldn't figure out how to make it clean enough and they had no clue how VW was doing it? This is when an engineer quietly says "thank goodness' to him/herself.

- If the only automobiles on our roads in the US which are running diesel are the modified pickups made to smoke a lot worse than stock, then, yeah, I'm ready for diesel to be banned in cars and light-duty trucks in the US.

Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2019 12:27
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The problem is, extremism feeds on extremism. For example, most people who attack fundamentalist muslims don't do it because they are enlightened, but because they are fundamentalist christians, hindus, jews, buddhists, etc., and vice versa. The same thing with politics: hard right wingers go bananas when they see hard left wingers, and vice versa.

Sane people just shake their heads and hope that self-righteous people who only see evil and hate in others will one day calm down.

Our religious, political, and ethnic thoughts are just that: thoughts. If we were born and lived in different circumstances we would have different beliefs. The first step is not to take hateful thoughts seriously.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2019 17:26
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Sasker, I've learned since 2016 that hoping that these people will calm down is wishful thinking. These people have always been here, they just haven't blatantly said anything until 2016. The best you can do when they start whining is to ignore them. Or ban them.

Anyways, this case doesn't have anything to do with banning diesels. And while VW decided to fraud the US public by straight up cheating a few years back when compliance consisted of a $300 SCR device, this specific case only refers to EU competition rules, not environmental. Unlike in the US, EU emissions law during that timeframe had enough loopholes and overemphasis on CO2 rather than smog that they didn't have to break any laws.

I imagine it would be hard to prove that these companies actually broke competition rules, and indeed they would probably not have been caught if Mercedes didn't basically admit to doing it and detailing the involvement of the other companies.

Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 00:02
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I think extremism is way older than that, and includes the left as much as the right. They can both be toxic, and they often feed each other.

In this particular case we are dealing with decent people. Shawn is one of the greatest contributors to VTEC, and I like his technical views. The same with KaizenDo, who isn't quite orthodox with some of his views, but brings new perspectives to the forum.

The problem is we can't see the world from each other's eyes. If you were a poor from a developing country, you may be tempted to cross borders illegally; if your innocent family were killed as collateral damage in a US attack , you may be tempted to harm Americans; if you are a European and tired of constant reminders about how the US saved them, you may glee at any sign of the decline of the American empire, and if you are a law-abiding American, you may be frustrated to see people breaking immigration laws with impunity, or others terrorizing innocent Americans, or Europeans not showing gratitude and respect for American blood and money used to win wars for their allies.

The truth is like Rumi's elephant and the blind men. We are each seeing a small piece of it, but think we know it all. What we have to do is remember that we should have some compassion and understanding for each other. After all, with some change in our circumstances, we could easily be or become like the person we are fighting with.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 03:36
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KaizenDo wrote:
Oh wow, please tell me more. You're so exciting to listen to.

By the way, since I've unfortunately mistook your place with an actual Honda forum - when do you guys will start this white cape wearing, burning wodden crosses and brother marrying sister thing?

:o)



That's your response? Someone who criticizes government overreach by unelected bureaucrats (in the realm of automotive tech) must be, according to your worldview, racist and inbred?

How the hell did you make that leap of reasoning? Were you stoned? Sleep posting? Someone hijack your account?

Please, do tell, because while I'm a pretty smart guy, I can't imagine how you made that leap of logic.


.....unless of course you simply aren't capable of refuting the argument that the EU is run by unelected bureaucrats who exhibit strong statist tendencies. Keep grazing that field lambchop.

As for the rest of you, this thread has nothing to do with extremism in any shape or form. It's about know nothing bureaucrats sticking their noses in places they shouldn't be and making the world worse for it. You ought to know by know that I despise government overreach and will speak against it whereever I see it. That applies to irrational business regulation, it applies to trying to force men into women's bathrooms and dressing rooms, it applies to police seizing citizens property when no one is charged with a crime, it applies to rain water taxes and it applies to government choosing business winners through taxation or subsidy, be it diesel manufacturers or electric car companies.

SC

p.s. KaizenDo, this sort of response is exactly why I keep you around. Not only do you beclown yourself, but you prove my points in ways I could not do without your nuttiness.


TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 09:15
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Sasker wrote:

The truth is like Rumi's elephant and the blind men. We are each seeing a small piece of it, but think we know it all. What we have to do is remember that we should have some compassion and understanding for each other. After all, with some change in our circumstances, we could easily be or become like the person we are fighting with.



+1

Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: German car makers colluded on emission reduction    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 17:09
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Daimler: New emissions cheating software discovered:
https://www.dw.com/en/daimler-new-emissions-cheating-software-discovered-report/a-48320995

Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: This thread    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-16-2019 11:49
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