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TOV Forums > Professional Motorsports > > Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers

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cforez
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 04:00
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Pretty good day for Honda. Verstappen splitting the Ferraris and still third in the championship and Gasly with fastest lap! Albon had a good day too after yesterday’s big crash coming from last to tenth. Red Bull is getting pretty close to Ferrari, but still a long way from Mercedes.

Hoping to witness another Marc Marquez domination of COTA later today, should probably get some sleep, lol.


briansxr
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 05:06
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Very happy that Albon was able to make a comeback and hold onto 10th p.
Grace141
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 12:33
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Does anyone else think Mercedes found more power since the spring practice? Sandbagging in practice? It looks like the Mercs now have the Ferraris covered in most situations.

It looked to me like RB finally got their strategies right for both drivers although Gasly still seems slow behind Verstappen. Interesting too that Gasly had enough of a lead on Ricciardo to stop for tires and get the fastest lap. I hope no one tells Ricciardo about that.

Someone on the Sky broadcast commented that Leclerc looked like he's taken Kimi's role in the team and it did look that way. I hope he stays the course with Ferrari and doesn't think the grass might be greener at Renault or something.

It seems like Magnussen has his Good Kevin and Bad Kevin days. I thought he drove a good race here but Haas seems to be struggling. When you hear practically nothing about Grosjean during a race you know he isn't pushing anyone around on the course. That said, Albon was lucky to keep 10th after a brilliant drive to get there.

I was certain it was Magnussen who was pushing Albon at the end there. Maybe I was half asleep though. RB used Gasly quite effectively on one lap near the end to split Albon from the Haas car right behind him.

I'm sure Kvyat did some good things during the race. I just didn't happen to see or hear of any of them. Makes me think Horner may now wish he'd treated Ricciardo better.

For a bit of Honda talk, it's pretty cool that with what amounts to five years of development, including starting over with a Plan B they didn't even have on the radar when they started, they've reverse engineered the race results from Mercedes based on guesstimated power estimates and garage spy photographs to build what is more or less one of the most innovative gasoline power drivetrains on the planet and they're now causing trouble for Ferrari. Bravo Honda folks! Now, back to work.

Anyway, it seemed like RB had a better take on its chassis setup this weekend which means Honda has more work to do. With Verstappen more or less maintaining his gaps with Vettel ahead and Leclerc behind for the latter stages of the race it means more power soon, Honda! It was a fun race to watch if you enjoy the drama of the midfield.

Bullwinkle
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 12:37
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danielgr wrote:
shingles wrote:
I admit to knowing nothing about qualifying strategy... I just alway wonder why everyone waits for the very last possible second to go for the 2nd run. It's just so damn risky.

I have no specific knowledge either but from my chair I'd say going later gives you a more rubbed track and info on your rivals. One outing is mandatory, but the second not necessarily. Knowing your rival's choices and results has invited advantages, but going later its risks ; part of race weekend strategy.

That said, maybe it's not always just strategy, but also impacted by the time required to get ready from a previous run, make the decision to go once your rivals move, etc.




In a lot of different forms of road racing (bikes and cars), the track gets faster and faster as more cars lay down "friendly" rubber. So you ideally would ant to start your last fast lap just as time runs out so that you are the last car to set a time.

This is not always the case, but it is true in an awful lot of cases.

Vtec_rally
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 12:48
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I wonder how much longer Red Bull will give Gasly. We're only three races in, but if he doesn't move up the standings soon, I could see them giving Albon a serious look. I can't wait to see Red Bull Honda on the podium on a consistent basis.

If Riccardo would've stayed @ Red Bull Honda, I think they would've been a quiet formidable team to contend with from now.

JeffX
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 13:21
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Decent day for Honda overall. Toro Rossos look improved this year. Albon had a remarkable day.

Kvyat, wtf?

Red Bull strategy worked pretty well today - Max performed reliably. Ferraris are in sight. The pace of Gasly concerns me. Even with a set of soft tires (were they brand new?) and presumably with a light fuel load, he barely pipped Vettel for fastest lap. It's cool they notched that extra point, though.

I would love to see Red Bull give Albon a shot in the RB15.

tom3690
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 15:43
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I remember last year when STR started with Gasly and Hartley I had concerns as to the fact that neither were a known quantity and that made drawing conclusions about the chassis and it’s potential hard to gauge
If Gasly really is that far off Max then it points to last years STR chassis being a damned sight better than we thought
I hope for Gasly’s sakes it is as simple as finding a way to drive the Red Bull in a way the extracts what Max is getting from it
Albon must have alerted Red Bull with his start to the year.
If Gasly keeps qualifying over half a second off Max then I can see him being swapped within a few races
As for Honda it is really impressive what they have achieved both in performance and in particular reliability
Let’s hope they find a reliable power increase soon to carry them to the top step

rnd
Profile for rnd
Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 16:09
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Just spoiled the Motogp race on a f1 thread not cool.

cforez wrote:
Pretty good day for Honda. Verstappen splitting the Ferraris and still third in the championship and Gasly with fastest lap! Albon had a good day too after yesterday’s big crash coming from last to tenth. Red Bull is getting pretty close to Ferrari, but still a long way from Mercedes.

Hoping to witness another Marc Marquez domination of COTA later today, should probably get some sleep, lol.





cforez
Profile for cforez
Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 17:04
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rnd wrote:
Just spoiled the Motogp race on a f1 thread not cool.

cforez wrote:
Pretty good day for Honda. Verstappen splitting the Ferraris and still third in the championship and Gasly with fastest lap! Albon had a good day too after yesterday’s big crash coming from last to tenth. Red Bull is getting pretty close to Ferrari, but still a long way from Mercedes.

Hoping to witness another Marc Marquez domination of COTA later today, should probably get some sleep, lol.







No spoilers there...



sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 19:33
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JeffX wrote:


Kvyat, wtf?




I think you're being a bit harsh on Kvyat. He left enough room for Norris to come back onto the track, and Sainz behind him but didn't allow for the wobble he got on power down.

Like you my initial reaction was Kvyat you dipstick, but on the second round of replays it clearly shows Kvyat being tipped wide from a hit from the rear which forced the major contact with Norris. Sometimes your luck just runs out........

I believe it was a harsh penalty. As one wag on Racer.com wrote - It’s a reputation based penalty.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.sainz-kvyat-lack-of-patience-caused-first-lap-crash.18YGlYUUcOZ4WXCNSTmNMd.html


JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 20:50
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sadlerau wrote:
JeffX wrote:


Kvyat, wtf?




I think you're being a bit harsh on Kvyat. He left enough room for Norris to come back onto the track, and Sainz behind him but didn't allow for the wobble he got on power down.

Like you my initial reaction was Kvyat you dipstick, but on the second round of replays it clearly shows Kvyat being tipped wide from a hit from the rear which forced the major contact with Norris. Sometimes your luck just runs out........

I believe it was a harsh penalty. As one wag on Racer.com wrote - It’s a reputation based penalty.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.sainz-kvyat-lack-of-patience-caused-first-lap-crash.18YGlYUUcOZ4WXCNSTmNMd.html




I wasn't really talking about that moment in particular, as I agree I thought he was perhaps unfairly punished. But my comment was more about how did he even end up in that fray in the first place? He seems to have had a horrible start, and then his entire day after that was a cluster f.

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2019 21:28
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The fine line between getting a good start, or it all turning to sh^t.

I'm honestly surprised at how robust this generation of F1 cars are. After that wheel bashing episode, I'm surprised any of them could finish that lap, let alone continue??

sennaFAN
Profile for sennaFAN
Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2019 05:33
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Rumours of a 20hp PU improvement coming for Baku ... !
danielgr
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2019 07:03
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No matter how many times I watched the Kvyat incident it seems to me that someone pushed him from behind into the McLaren. I can't see the car jumping forward like it did otherwise, despite not a single camera catching up that on the TV feed I was watching.

Otherwise, it was a solid race for Honda, if quite boring overall. I do agree with most here and most, but here are my two cents just in case.
- Max did the job, but the RB still lacks the pace to best the Ferraris, and the McLaren's look too dominant for the championship to be interesting.
- Gasly... small improvement, but the gap to his teammate (no matter how good he is) is still too large.
- Honda's engine is not the most powerful, but it's certainly far from being a liability this year. In the end, Honda cars did pretty well on China, which is the first time I remember since they came back.
- Albon well deserved driver of the day, amazing race on a 1stop, holding the Haas at the end (mind you, a Honda powered car past year would have never managed so, regardless of the chasis).
- Kvyat could have had a great race well inside the points, if not for that unlucky 1st lap incident (still not sure he was to blame, not until I see a camera showing what happened behind him when he fell into the McLaren).
- Leclerc got a disadvantage from his team orders, but I don't think that was big enough for him to get ahead of Max either way. Had they not swapped positions though, Vettel could have ended up in 5th, but we'll never know.
- Another Renault retirement... and counting...

Now looking forward to the next race, and both Honda and RB to hopefully close the gap.

sennaFAN
Profile for sennaFAN
Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2019 07:13
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I wonder if Honda put the new spec PU in the STR as both required new PU during the event ??
Re Kvyat, I believe the punishment was very harsh as it was a typical first lap squeeze. The correction of oversteer is again typical on cold tyres and an eager driver but are not malicious.
He clearly went slightly side ways and did so just as Norris came back on to the track. The on board of Sainz shows he saw what was happening with a diminishing gap and locked his brakes trying to avoid the collision.
He then hit Kvyat who launched into Norris.
The stewards later seemed to accept that Kvyat was harshly dealt with
But that is what 'reputation' gains you I am afraid.

NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2019 09:24
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danielgr wrote:
No matter how many times I watched the Kvyat incident it seems to me that someone pushed him from behind into the McLaren. I can't see the car jumping forward like it did otherwise, despite not a single camera catching up that on the TV feed I was watching.

Otherwise, it was a solid race for Honda, if quite boring overall. I do agree with most here and most, but here are my two cents just in case.
- Max did the job, but the RB still lacks the pace to best the Ferraris, and the McLaren's look too dominant for the championship to be interesting.
- Gasly... small improvement, but the gap to his teammate (no matter how good he is) is still too large.
- Honda's engine is not the most powerful, but it's certainly far from being a liability this year. In the end, Honda cars did pretty well on China, which is the first time I remember since they came back.
- Albon well deserved driver of the day, amazing race on a 1stop, holding the Haas at the end (mind you, a Honda powered car past year would have never managed so, regardless of the chasis).
- Kvyat could have had a great race well inside the points, if not for that unlucky 1st lap incident (still not sure he was to blame, not until I see a camera showing what happened behind him when he fell into the McLaren).
- Leclerc got a disadvantage from his team orders, but I don't think that was big enough for him to get ahead of Max either way. Had they not swapped positions though, Vettel could have ended up in 5th, but we'll never know.
- Another Renault retirement... and counting...

Now looking forward to the next race, and both Honda and RB to hopefully close the gap.


Do you mean "Mercedes" here?

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2019 10:35
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NealX wrote:
danielgr wrote:
No matter how many times I watched the Kvyat incident it seems to me that someone pushed him from behind into the McLaren. I can't see the car jumping forward like it did otherwise, despite not a single camera catching up that on the TV feed I was watching.

Otherwise, it was a solid race for Honda, if quite boring overall. I do agree with most here and most, but here are my two cents just in case.
- Max did the job, but the RB still lacks the pace to best the Ferraris, and the McLaren's look too dominant for the championship to be interesting.
- Gasly... small improvement, but the gap to his teammate (no matter how good he is) is still too large.
- Honda's engine is not the most powerful, but it's certainly far from being a liability this year. In the end, Honda cars did pretty well on China, which is the first time I remember since they came back.
- Albon well deserved driver of the day, amazing race on a 1stop, holding the Haas at the end (mind you, a Honda powered car past year would have never managed so, regardless of the chasis).
- Kvyat could have had a great race well inside the points, if not for that unlucky 1st lap incident (still not sure he was to blame, not until I see a camera showing what happened behind him when he fell into the McLaren).
- Leclerc got a disadvantage from his team orders, but I don't think that was big enough for him to get ahead of Max either way. Had they not swapped positions though, Vettel could have ended up in 5th, but we'll never know.
- Another Renault retirement... and counting...

Now looking forward to the next race, and both Honda and RB to hopefully close the gap.


Do you mean "Mercedes" here?


Ha ha ha, of course !!!

(That kind of thing happens when you've been watching F1 for too long... feels like yesterday that "the Silver Arrows" had the first ever black driver rookie at their wheel ^o^)

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2019 10:48
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sennaFAN wrote:
Re Kvyat, I believe the punishment was very harsh as it was a typical first lap squeeze. The correction of oversteer is again typical on cold tyres and an eager driver but are not malicious.
He clearly went slightly side ways and did so just as Norris came back on to the track. The on board of Sainz shows he saw what was happening with a diminishing gap and locked his brakes trying to avoid the collision.
He then hit Kvyat who launched into Norris.
The stewards later seemed to accept that Kvyat was harshly dealt with
But that is what 'reputation' gains you I am afraid.


Yeah, it's like the whole world hang the guy before even having had a trial. As you say, there is reputation, but honestly this time I don't think he was to blame.

Thanks to your suggestion I found this video (obviously posted by Russian guys, but imho the images speak for themselves). From here It'd say it was mainly Sainz's fault.



If you look from Stroll's camera, however, it shows you had three cars on normal lap1 situation on cold tires, one of them oversteered a bit, and the correction to that sealed their fate. Truly hard to put much blame on anything but an unfortunate incident.



NorCalSales
Profile for NorCalSales
Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2019 11:07
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Great race really for the Honda PU's...heck great start to the season really. Pretty sure the numbers bear out the difference between the top 3 engines is minimal at best, it is now on RB to refine that chassis so that Merc doesn't murder them in the corners. Renault is a hot mess right now... Daniel is certainly regretting his decision... wonder if he still thinks "Honda hasn't proven anything".

The best thing for Gasly is the way AA is driving, it will push him to be better although it doesn't seem like anyone at RB is blaming him for the first 2 races when the chassis is still a bit of a mess. He looked great in China, I don't think anyone is deluded enough to think he is as good as Max so he should be a half second off his pace based on skill alone..

NealX
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2019 11:09
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danielgr wrote:
NealX wrote:
danielgr wrote:
No matter how many times I watched the Kvyat incident it seems to me that someone pushed him from behind into the McLaren. I can't see the car jumping forward like it did otherwise, despite not a single camera catching up that on the TV feed I was watching.

Otherwise, it was a solid race for Honda, if quite boring overall. I do agree with most here and most, but here are my two cents just in case.
- Max did the job, but the RB still lacks the pace to best the Ferraris, and the McLaren's look too dominant for the championship to be interesting.
- Gasly... small improvement, but the gap to his teammate (no matter how good he is) is still too large.
- Honda's engine is not the most powerful, but it's certainly far from being a liability this year. In the end, Honda cars did pretty well on China, which is the first time I remember since they came back.
- Albon well deserved driver of the day, amazing race on a 1stop, holding the Haas at the end (mind you, a Honda powered car past year would have never managed so, regardless of the chasis).
- Kvyat could have had a great race well inside the points, if not for that unlucky 1st lap incident (still not sure he was to blame, not until I see a camera showing what happened behind him when he fell into the McLaren).
- Leclerc got a disadvantage from his team orders, but I don't think that was big enough for him to get ahead of Max either way. Had they not swapped positions though, Vettel could have ended up in 5th, but we'll never know.
- Another Renault retirement... and counting...

Now looking forward to the next race, and both Honda and RB to hopefully close the gap.


Do you mean "Mercedes" here?


Ha ha ha, of course !!!

(That kind of thing happens when you've been watching F1 for too long... feels like yesterday that "the Silver Arrows" had the first ever black driver rookie at their wheel ^o^)


I miss Mika, too.

sennaFAN
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2019 12:12
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I couldn't apportion any blame to Sainz, they were all pretty innocent parties. It was just one of those things.
The shame was that Kvyat had a bloody good race car as Albon proved.
It will be VERY interesting to see how Baku goes. Honda PU was really weak there last year. If they compete well this year then they can compete at any circuit throughout the year

rnd
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2019 17:12
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You're right
I saw Motogp and Marquez domination and didn't read further as I hadn't seen the race yet.
my apologies.


cforez wrote:
rnd wrote:
Just spoiled the Motogp race on a f1 thread not cool.

cforez wrote:
Pretty good day for Honda. Verstappen splitting the Ferraris and still third in the championship and Gasly with fastest lap! Albon had a good day too after yesterday’s big crash coming from last to tenth. Red Bull is getting pretty close to Ferrari, but still a long way from Mercedes.

Hoping to witness another Marc Marquez domination of COTA later today, should probably get some sleep, lol.







No spoilers there...





blackstripe77
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-16-2019 00:05
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It looks like a poor combination of Kvyats minor oversteer moment, and Lando Norris coming back on track. If you watch from Sainz's view, he actually locks up and steers right, towards Kvyat, as Norris tries to make his way back onto the track. In touching Kvyat, he sends the STR further left into Lando Norris... Had Lando Norris not been trying to make his way back onto the track, looks like there might've been room for at least Sainz and Kvyat to get through the corner without too much trouble....
sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-16-2019 00:51
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blackstripe77 wrote:
Had Lando Norris not been trying to make his way back onto the track, looks like there might've been room for at least Sainz and Kvyat to get through the corner without too much trouble....


Would've been, could've been, it was a racing incident.

I wonder if the Stewards can reverse the points penalty they've applied, as they got this one patently wrong? Nothing much any driver could have done differently, in each of the 3 cars.

danielgr
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Re: F1 - 2019 Chinese Grand Prix spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-16-2019 11:05
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sadlerau wrote:
blackstripe77 wrote:
Had Lando Norris not been trying to make his way back onto the track, looks like there might've been room for at least Sainz and Kvyat to get through the corner without too much trouble....


Would've been, could've been, it was a racing incident.

I wonder if the Stewards can reverse the points penalty they've applied, as they got this one patently wrong? Nothing much any driver could have done differently, in each of the 3 cars.

Seems we all agree.


 
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